40 demerits is it worth it?

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 12:03

Originally Posted by Racey Rider

Yer fair enough. Just needed some cool down time.

Thou I might still try a letter.

What innoyes me is the fact it was a muffty car that pulled me up for something that wasn't dangerous. It was good conditions, wide road, little traffic, No pedestrians.
Had it been a marked cop, I would have seen him and slowed.
Had there been a child with ball on the side of the road, I would have seen them and slowed. Had it been a car, looking suspiciously like turning infront of me, I would have slowed. But I saw the muffty car, and considered it not to be a threat to me, or I to him, and continued on.

Don't get me wrong - I also said if there are extenuating circumstances you are well within your rights to argue (and if not) - however I just disagree with the rampant 'get off it and all costs' attitude when we all know the rules and cop a fine fair and square.

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 12:07

Originally Posted by XRNR

Well Mr Devil's Advocate!

Soon you may start believing in all the stuff you say and become the personification of a model traffic citizen.

Then you will be able to do something helpful for all your fellow KBikers and put your nice radar detector up for sale along with all your other bike gear

So the basis of your argument then is scrap the speeding laws??? Hmmm - gr8 idea....

No - I am saying that the Speeding Laws aren't bad in general - the execution may be - but we need SPEEDING laws......that is all. Yes they may need fine tuning - and the recent attempt to reduce the tolerance is stupid....however to fight a ticket when you were rightly and justly caught speeding is ridiculous.....

I will put my detector up for sale gladly (just not the jammer)

I also said that we know the rules, I choose to speed, if I am caught - it is my own stupid fault. I didn't say I wasn't going to try every possible way to avoid being caught.

**bluninja** · 13th January 2004, 13:49

Originally Posted by wkid_one

I also said that we know the rules, I choose to speed, if I am caught - it is my own stupid fault. I didn't say I wasn't going to try every possible way to avoid being caught.

So how is using all means at your disposal (and jammers are illegal) to speed and not get caught any different from using all means not to be prosecuted successfully by someone who has been caught?

Both methods ultimate goal is to be able to break the law and yet receive no penalty.

**spudchucka** · 13th January 2004, 15:26

Originally Posted by Racey Rider

Had it been a marked cop, I would have seen him and slowed.
Had there been a child with ball on the side of the road, I would have seen them and slowed. Had it been a car, looking suspiciously like turning infront of me, I would have slowed. But I saw the muffty car, and considered it not to be a threat to me, or I to him, and continued on.

Stiff shit, you know as well as anyone that there are unmarked cars out there. You want to speed then suffer the consequences and don't bitch about it cos you knew it could happen!

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 16:06

Ahh not at all?

When you play any sport do you not try and get away with everything you possibly can irrespective if it is against the rules? Yet you play to the whistle. When penalised you take your medicine and on you go. However, by using a detector or sim - you are just trying to minimise the chance of being caught - not of avoiding any punishment if you do.......no different that fuckwits who overclaim on insurance etc....

The two are completely different perspectives. Regardless of whether you try to avoid being caught or not - the rules are the same..

**bluninja** · 13th January 2004, 16:25

Originally Posted by wkid_one

Ahh not at all?

When you play any sport do you not try and get away with everything you possibly can irrespective if it is against the rules?

Perhaps that is the fundamental difference between us. The challenge for me is to be the best I can be inside the rules, rather than stretching and bending them because I'm not good enough to win or compete otherwise.

I still see no difference in end result between someone who legally(or illegally) avoids being caught, or someone who tries to avoid prosecution on a technicality, or using the legal system.

**Lou Girardin** · 13th January 2004, 16:37

Last year, there was a story about a wealthy guy that got off 8 out of 9 speeding tickets by using a clever brief. It cost him $11,000 in fees to do so. But the point proved was that the cops stuff up on a regular basis. Why not use that incompetence to your benefit? Or are the cops above the law?
Lou

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 16:50

However $11000 is a price to pay for 8 fines. The cops are not perfect - however if you get off a crime because the cop wrote 11.40am rather than 11.42am on the ticket - you are still in the wrong.....

READ MY POST - I said if there are extenuating circumstances - you should challenge it, but if you are caught fair and square - take it on the chin rather than being a wanker about it......

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 16:56

Originally Posted by bluninja

Perhaps that is the fundamental difference between us. The challenge for me is to be the best I can be inside the rules, rather than stretching and bending them because I'm not good enough to win or compete otherwise.

So you never speed? You never overtake on a corner or where there is less than the prescribed visual distance. You never, when you played rugby tried to get in front of the advantage line on defense? You never ran an amber light when you could have stopped? You never rolled through a stop on a stop sign......
You never when playing soccer etc taken the penalty a few feet ahead of the mark?

You never left earlier than the prescribed knock off time from your employer?

Shit life must be boring then.....

(pot calling kettle tho as I have done this, so this is all devils advocate - with my infamous 129kph bicycle ticket).

**Big Dog** · 13th January 2004, 16:59

Originally Posted by Racey Rider

But I saw the muffty car, and considered it not to be a threat to me, or I to him, and continued on.

so why keep speeding if you have already identified it as mufty?

This sounds like a dumb question until you answer "I thought it was just another car" comes back. Because herein lies the rub, your above outlined claim that you were fully alert to the risks you faced falls on its sword if you failed to identify the mufty. If you reply that you new it was mufty but thought they would not snatch you for it again your argument falls on its sword.

I have no sympathy for people nicked in excess of 20 over.
(under that there are plenty of innocent reasons, incorrectly claibrated speedo).

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 17:07

Originally Posted by Big Dog

so why keep speeding if you have already identified it as mufty?

This sounds like a dumb question until you answer "I thought it was just another car" comes back. Because herein lies the rub, your above outlined claim that you were fully alert to the risks you faced falls on its sword if you failed to identify the mufty. If you reply that you new it was mufty but thought they would not snatch you for it again your argument falls on its sword.

I have no sympathy for people nicked in excess of 20 over.
(under that there are plenty of innocent reasons, incorrectly claibrated speedo).

WHO RAR than man

**Big Dog** · 13th January 2004, 17:38

Originally Posted by wkid_one

WHO RAR than man

?What ?

**bluninja** · 13th January 2004, 17:43

Originally Posted by wkid_one

So you never speed? You never overtake on a corner or where there is less than the prescribed visual distance. You never, when you played rugby tried to get in front of the advantage line on defense? You never ran an amber light when you could have stopped? You never rolled through a stop on a stop sign......
You never when playing soccer etc taken the penalty a few feet ahead of the mark?

You never left earlier than the prescribed knock off time from your employer?

Shit life must be boring then.....

(pot calling kettle tho as I have done this, so this is all devils advocate - with my infamous 129kph bicycle ticket).

Apart from the speeding I would have to say mostly no...and my life ain't boring that's why I'm online so much. However I don't carry loads of detection/jamming gear, and when caught I have been polite to the police officer and paid up afterwards. But then I have 35 points on my NZ license, and a clean UK license so I tend to see it just as another form of road tax. If I was going to lose my license I may change my road habits, or get a good barrister. Won't know till that happens.

If I received a ticket and it the cop had cocked up an obvious way then I wouldn't have a guilty conscience about getting it withdrawn, just like I don't feel guilty when I speed.

**wkid_one** · 13th January 2004, 18:07

Originally Posted by bluninja

Apart from the speeding I would have to say mostly no...and my life ain't boring that's why I'm online so much. However I don't carry loads of detection/jamming gear, and when caught I have been polite to the police officer and paid up afterwards. But then I have 35 points on my NZ license, and a clean UK license so I tend to see it just as another form of road tax. If I was going to lose my license I may change my road habits, or get a good barrister. Won't know till that happens.

If I received a ticket and it the cop had cocked up an obvious way then I wouldn't have a guilty conscience about getting it withdrawn, just like I don't feel guilty when I speed.

This is exactly my point!