Cornering - apex - explain?

[PrincessBandit]

And it's all about judgement, and that is not always best learnt at speed.
Picking lines is primarily about safety, not how fast you can get through the corner (although a nice bonus for those who like to work their machine in tune with the road). It takes time and patience developing the skill - of which I am quietly working away at - and always keeping "the unexpected" uppermost in your mind. As someone else just said, vision is the most important thing - a beautiful line can still turn to crap if there is an unexpected obstacle. This is probably more pertinent to corners that are well-known and ridden frequently where attention to detail can take a back seat to the feeling of exhilaration...

[MSTRS:Me]

Oh boy,if the Vanishing Point is the only card you've got to play,you sure aren't stacking the deck in your favour.There are a shit load of clues to tell you how a corner needs to be dealt with.

I know there is, and they all have a part to play in how we approach, negotiate and exit a corner. But unlike a row of telephone poles, fencelines, surface camber, speed advisory signs or chevrons for instance, the VP is a constant presence. And it doesn't take shortcuts.

[MSTRS:Me]

Another good reason for staying wide until you can see your exit is clear can be seen on the attached image.

I have seen it dozens of times on this bend, a bike travelling left to right enters from LHS of lane goes over the centre line on exit OR enters from RHS of lane and apexes mid corner goes over the centre line on exit.

This is another. Colloquially known as Yungatart's Corner. As you travel right to left, it not only tightens, but the gradient steepens dramatically mid-corner.
http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&...8&source=embed

[Motu]

the VP is a constant presence.

It's an effect,not a cause - primary clues first,call in secondary as they are needed.

[davebullet]

And it's all about judgement.

Another judgemental biker

[george formby]

This is another. Colloquially known as Yungatart's Corner. As you travel right to left, it not only tightens, but the gradient steepens dramatically mid-corner.
http://maps.google.co.nz/maps?hl=en&...8&source=embed

Now that looks like a corner which screams out to watch the vanishing point on entry & a fair degree of confidence to ride smoothly. Could almost be the Managamukas but I can't see any logging trucks.

[MSTRS:Me]

It's an effect,not a cause - primary clues first,call in secondary as they are needed.

And I would still argue that it can always been relied on, because it is always there. Whereas other clues are not always present and when they are, they may not be reliable.
Still, if we've been riding for yonks and never (or seldom) have a problem with corners, then whatever 'system' we use is right for us individually.

[MSTRS:Me]

Now that looks like a corner which screams out to watch the vanishing point on entry & a fair degree of confidence to ride smoothly. Could almost be the Managamukas but I can't see any logging trucks.

It's a minor link road between HW30 and HW4, inland from Te Kuiti.
Check out this shot from ground level. As you come into the corner top right, the ground is level and you are already cornering. Right where it tightens is where the gradient changes. You are unlikely to find a worse corner anywhere.

[oneofsix]

It's a minor link road between HW30 and HW4, inland from Te Kuiti.
Check out this shot from ground level. As you come into the corner top right, the ground is level and you are already cornering. Right where it tightens is where the gradient changes. You are unlikely to find a worse corner anywhere.

That corner seems to give a false vanishing point. I think I would still be slowing down because I can't see whats beyond the gradient change. Is this your point?

[george formby]

And I would still argue that it can always been relied on, because it is always there. Whereas other clues are not always present and when they are, they may not be reliable.
Still, if we've been riding for yonks and never (or seldom) have a problem with corners, then whatever 'system' we use is right for us individually.

I have seen a a rider go straight into a field using telegraph poles to read the road ahead. Dirty but no damage.

I think as time goes by the clues we take in to indicate what is ahead increases but the final decisions still happen at the corner. I should imagine the corner on google maps is visible on approach & looking well ahead, it's form would be visible long before you get to it.
Well, maybe. Depending on the trees etc.

[george formby]

That corner seems to give a false vanishing point. I think I would still be slowing down because I can't see whats beyond the gradient change. Is this your point?

Definitely a case of slow in me thinks.

[oneofsix]

I have seen a a rider go straight into a field using telegraph poles to read the road ahead. Dirty but no damage.

I think as time goes by the clues we take in to indicate what is ahead increases but the final decisions still happen at the corner. I should imagine the corner on google maps is visible on approach & looking well ahead, it's form would be visible long before you get to it.
Well, maybe. Depending on the trees etc.

I remember when the road marker posts on the outside of a corner were spaced so as to indicate the safe cornering speed. Pity this is still not consistently done as it would provide one more clue.

[george formby]

I remember when the road marker posts on the outside of a corner were spaced so as to indicate the safe cornering speed. Pity this is still not consistently done as it would provide one more clue.

I've noticed that too. I use the reflective markers at night, they reflect well ahead of the headlight throw.

[MSTRS:Me]

That corner seems to give a false vanishing point. I think I would still be slowing down because I can't see whats beyond the gradient change. Is this your point?

Partly. Using the VP to assist with determining a speed that allows safe negotiation of a corner is complicated by a gradient change that reduces the visible clear road. Exacerbated in this particular case by a bank on the left that blocks any view of what is up ahead, and by a steep downhill reducing the effectiveness of your brakes. Couple that with all the motorists that went before, whose own panic braking has scrubbed the chip smooth...well....

I have seen a a rider go straight into a field using telegraph poles to read the road ahead.

Exactly.

I remember when the road marker posts on the outside of a corner were spaced so as to indicate the safe cornering speed. Pity this is still not consistently done as it would provide one more clue.

I never knew that. Just that the reflectors are yellow.

Basically, this side conversation to the thread topic only supports the importance of approaching a corner as wide as possible, to allow maximum view into that corner and what it might present.

[Motu]

And I would still argue that it can always been relied on, because it is always there.

By the time it's noticed the VP is telling you your speed is too fast for the corner - you have cocked up long before that,and now a wide exit is the result.In a blind corner on a road you have never travelled before,the VP is the last
thing you should be relying on - it doesn't tell you there is a driveway,wandering stock,a slip,a tourist on the wrong side of the road...the list goes on.Sorry,but the Vanishing Point is a long way down on the list of things telling me how to approach a corner.