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Thread: NZ laws 'encourage criminals'

  1. #1
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    NZ laws 'encourage criminals'

    An international law and order expert says successive New Zealand governments are to blame for the "scandal of the century" – a raft of offender-friendly legislation.

    In his newly released book, Badlands, NZ: A Land Fit for Criminals, former English National Criminal Intelligence Service analyst David Fraser says politicians should look back on their actions with shame.

    "The record of all governments in New Zealand since the 1950s in relation to crime prevention has been disastrous," Fraser writes.

    "The fact is that all governments since then have gone out of their way to introduce policies that have encouraged criminals to become more criminal.

    "Almost every piece of criminal justice legislation passed during the period has made it easier for judges to avoid sending criminals to prison, by expanding the number of non-custodial alternatives available to them.

    "In addition, other acts of parliament, as well as procedural and administrative changes, have put numerous obstacles in the way of finding, arresting and convicting offenders."

    Fraser spent 24 years working in the UK's Probation Service and visited New Zealand in 2007 to promote his first book, A Land Fit For Criminals: An Insider's View of Crime, Punishment and Justice in the UK.

    He became concerned about the nature of offending in New Zealand, and has since spent the past three years researching crime rates and law and order changes.

    He argues while politicians have overseen law changes that have been criminal-friendly, in too many cases they have shown scant concern for the wellbeing of the victims of their crimes.

    He cited how in 2003 Prime Minister Helen Clark visited the family of a boy injured in a dog attack, and politicians promised to introduce tough new laws and give dog control officers greater powers. But he said the same response wasn't made towards the victims of serious crime.

    "No minister visited the family of Lynne Baxter who, while out jogging, was murdered by being deliberately run down, repeatedly stabbed, and whose head was crushed with a concrete tile," he said.

    "There was no similar ministerial response when Faletoi Kei, who was picnicking in the park with his family, was stabbed to death after offering food to his killer."

    He was also highly critical of the justice system's stance towards young offenders, with more than half dealt with outside the formal court system. Fraser argues that policy was "one of the ingredients of New Zealand's burgeoning crime problem".
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    "These criminal apprentices, the adult offenders of tomorrow, are helped and encouraged on their way by a system financed by the very public it victimises and then abandons," he said.

    Fraser labelled as a myth claims from government and opposition MPs that New Zealand was tough on crime, especially when New Zealand has "the second-highest imprisonment rate in the western world".

    Figures he has published show 15 European countries are tougher than New Zealand on the basis of how many people were imprisoned per 100,000 crimes recorded, and he said a British government document comparing imprisonment rates in 22 European countries, Canada, Australia and New Zealand, showed New Zealand was the "fifth most lenient" state.

    Francis has dedicated Badlands to the "families bereaved by criminals, and all other victims of crime".

    Badlands, NZ: A Land Fit for Criminals (Howling At The Moon Publishing), is on sale now.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...rage-criminals

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    Quote Originally Posted by SMOKEU View Post

    "Almost every piece of criminal justice legislation passed during the period has made it easier for judges to avoid sending criminals to prison, by expanding the number of non-custodial alternatives available to them.
    I'm wary of this article. It implys if we locked up more crims, the situation would be better. But that is where young crims serve their apprenticeships, and career criminals compare notes.
    Churches are monuments to self importance

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    Quote Originally Posted by scissorhands View Post
    I'm wary of this article. It implys if we locked up more crims, the situation would be better. But that is where young crims serve their apprenticeships, and career criminals compare notes.
    Let 'em compare notes - just don't let 'em out.
    Keep on chooglin'

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    I read the article with interest too and found it not too surprising that he commented on the comparative lack of support for victims of crime when held up against what consideration crims get.

    Perhaps if jail was hard labour and no privileges then maybe people would be more apprehensive about ending up in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I'd hate to ever have to admit that my arse had been owned by a Princess.

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    I note his distinction between our often quoted high imprisonment / population rate and the more accurate and far more telling imprisonment / crime rate.

    We might well have disproportionally high prison population, but it's not as high as the crime rate suggests is should be.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

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    Read " five families a mexican case study"

    then look at the laws that have been past that moved the wealth

    Locking someone up is a failure of the society. But when they do get locked up it should be in a pink tent in the Arizona desert , with one false move and its more of the same

    Stephen
    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

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    What IS it with people that seem to believe that there's a quantity of "wealth" that needs to be shared out and that someone else has their share?

    The societal failure here is that of allowing criminals the freedom to further prey on the innocent.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    What IS it with people that seem to believe that there's a quantity of "wealth" that needs to be shared out and that someone else has their share?

    The societal failure here is that of allowing criminals the freedom to further prey on the innocent.
    This is why the 1900's were always the best for crime. There was a deterant towards crime and they treated you like shit when they caught you. ah the good, OLD days.

    Nowadays its more about Victim support, and people saying "I'm mentally scarred, Pay me. Do it now "

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    What IS it with people that seem to believe that there's a quantity of "wealth" that needs to be shared out and that someone else has their share?

    The societal failure here is that of allowing criminals the freedom to further prey on the innocent.
    Because if you have all the cards ( money ) you can call the shots , and in an Egalitarian society SUCH as NZ IS stacking the game in your favour isn't cricket.

    Do I need to explain? and don't try the hard work, individual responsibility approach , or even the trickle down,, because the results are right there in your refrigerator (How much for milk?? IN NZ ?? Go fonterra !!!)

    Once a person HAS offended , then throw away the key , , but the level of offending is purely down to policy decisions starting around the mid sixties and is down to the community.

    Stephen
    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oblivion View Post
    This is why the 1900's were always the best for crime. There was a deterant towards crime and they treated you like shit when they caught you. ah the good, OLD days.

    Nowadays its more about Victim support, and people saying "I'm mentally scarred, Pay me. Do it now "
    In a the book about the history of Scotland yard, it concluded by saying the consequences were not the issue ( after all England had far tougher penalties than NZ , and the crime rate was just as high if not higher , Mary Watson? for the yard of cloth? )
    The book concluded it was the CHANCE of being caught that was the deterrent.

    Police on the beat, ( bicycles and lot of em ......) not revenue gathering to pay the mortgage off

    Stephen

    Ps I am a victim of the terminally stupid , wheres me money

    http://lcjb.cjsonline.gov.uk/Cambridgeshire/1534.html

    the pdf is from 1900 to today,,, I think clear changes in people behavior , that correspond to major economic, hence social pressures ( IMHO of course )Click image for larger version. 

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    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian d'marge View Post
    Because if you have all the cards ( money ) you can call the shots , and in an Egalitarian society SUCH as NZ IS stacking the game in your favour isn't cricket.

    Do I need to explain? and don't try the hard work, individual responsibility approach , or even the trickle down,, because the results are right there in your refrigerator (How much for milk?? IN NZ ?? Go fonterra !!!)

    Once a person HAS offended , then throw away the key , , but the level of offending is purely down to policy decisions starting around the mid sixties and is down to the community.

    Stephen
    But, it has always been about the most cost effective solution. I know, some people would say the same thing about certain Chinese products. "The cheaper they are the more likely they are to fail, and what not.

    New Zealand is renowned for taking shortcuts, and sometimes it has taken a bad turn.

    What we need to realize, well the Politicians need to realize is that the more expensive option can sometimes be cheaper/ more beneficial in the long run.

    Not that the Grubbermint would know much about that would they?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian d'marge View Post
    Because
    Oh, right. So it's the same people with more than their share of the wealth that fucked with the rules so that the poor people would be criminals?

    Gocha.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Oh, right. So it's the same people with more than their share of the wealth that fucked with the rules so that the poor people would be criminals?

    Gocha.
    No - the crime is a by-product.

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    Quote Originally Posted by short-circuit View Post
    No - the crime is a by-product.
    So we shouldn't blame crime on criminals?

    This get's less entertaining all the time...
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Oh, right. So it's the same people with more than their share of the wealth that fucked with the rules so that the poor people would be criminals?

    Gocha.
    Actually yes

    Try controlling the inflation rate by using unemployment ( thats going to cause a few social problems right there

    try reducing the benefit to the basic nutritional rate THEN reducing that by 20 percent , ( thats going to hurt a few ,,,,)

    Oh here one you might like

    Try removing the "no fault" and replacing it with an insurance model ... ( oh thats gotta hurt ...500 bucks a year ....)

    Got it now ...???

    If you want evidence I have TONS of it

    Stephen

    Ps and to quote your ownself ( a lack of trained people are definatly heading towards the dole , and the who give a F, anymore .........)

    It was. With some justification and much the same reason. The wee darlings all fucked off for a prolonged OE just when they began to be worth having around. To add insult to injury the bastards all went to work for the private sector when they eventually dragged their sorry arses back home. So the MOW, NZR, NZED et al said fukit, if privately owned industry wants 'em they can train them themselves.

    Private industry immediately failed to train anyone, of course, we went 20 years with fuck all apprenticeships. When they were eventually driven by the lack of tradesmen to begrudgingly admit they had no choice but to contribute they decided that what they really wanted wasn't those old fashioned trades at all. No, they wanted "Maintenance and Diagnostics Technicians". It's the single most eloquent synopsys of the problem: by that stage industrial “HR” departments had no idea what the trades do, where they're most effectively employed.
    "Look, Madame, where we live, look how we live ... look at the life we have...The Republic has forgotten us."

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