Cheers Hone, you arsehole, I really wanted to spend $500k on a by-election

[short-circuit]

Nice big lines being drawn in the sand.....simplify it for the simpletons.

On the far left we have well, the far left.

On the far right we have Don "The Nixon" Brash....

These guys aren't "far left" - don't kid yourself Labour are still a centre right party.

[Fatt Max]

Prefer this one myself, sort of settles it for me....

[riffer]

It's not actually that stupid a move.

If (big if!) he wins the by-election on the Mana platform, he becomes the leader of a party, with a big salary increase, and $50,000 extra towards election expenses.

Big gamble but if he pulls it off it gives him a much easier platform to campaign, with a bit more money to do the work.

[Swoop]

He's going to target 'intelligent maori voters'.

Well, he has to.

There is certainly no intelligence in that political lineup, so he has to get good ideas from somewhere. (His mum should be in that party... blend right in, she would.)



The sooner we get rid of MMP and have STV the better!

[Banditbandit]

No-one has to vote for them ... and clearly there are few votes here for Hone's party ...

Ooh.
Nandor Tanczos is involved as well.

It just gets better and better. A quinella of unemployable fuckwits, all with their noses in the public purse.

Are they? How?

How many white political members did the Maori party have? I honestly don't know. And if that's the case, he's not a very good racist. But I haven't been here that long . Shame about the bye-election money though.

There are quite a few white members of the Māori Party. The first full election they stod on Bob Considine was about number five ont he party list ..

I reckon it's so when this party turns to shit and implodes (I'll eat my hat if it doesn't*) he can blame it on all the others for being racist.

I predict the party will implode after the next election .. whether they get into Parliament or not ..

Wont bother him,hes not paying for it all.Tis us that are funding his shit,We have been for years.

Yes, unfortunately that's the price of democracy.

What as, the Moron-R-Us drongo touring combo??

No. That's ACT ... and maybe what DB should rename the party ...

[Latte]

BanditBandit - you've said previously that the maori party aren't your leaders, does Hone's Mana party fit the bill?

(Serious question - My instinct says it's probably none of the current flock of poli's at all, but interested to hear what you have to say - as an Intelligent Maori).

[Banditbandit]

BanditBandit - you've said previously that the maori party aren't your leaders, does Hone's Mana party fit the bill?

(Serious question - My instinct says it's probably none of the current flock of poli's at all, but interested to hear what you have to say - as an Intelligent Maori).

Thanks for the compliment.

No, Hone is not one of the people I would regard as a leader. Firstly, he's not from my iwi. That makes a major difference. It may well be that enough of the people in Ngā Puhi who regard him as a leader to vote for him. Or at least regard him as a good spokesman for them. That's a major difference in Māori and non-Māori politics.

Many Māori, including myself, agree with a lot of what he says. However, I also think he opens his mouth sometimes without thinking too much .. and drops himself right in it.

I'm not convinced he is in the right place in Parliament. What has happened is pretty much what I thought would happen ... he's got himself offside with everyone, which is not a good thing in a parliamentarian.

Outside the political arena Hone's done a lot of good work (which few of you will know about as the media has not picked it up - just his activist/political stuff).

He'd be better off going back to what he does best - as a backroom boy - and stay out of the political limelight ... he's too much of a loose cannon at times to be in the limelight.

[short-circuit]

Thanks for the compliment.

No, Hone is not one of the people I would regard as a leader. Firstly, he's not from my iwi. That makes a major difference. It may well be that enough of the people in Ngā Puhi who regard him as a leader to vote for him. Or at least regard him as a good spokesman for them. That's a major difference in Māori and non-Māori politics.

Many Māori, including myself, agree with a lot of what he says. However, I also think he opens his mouth sometimes without thinking too much .. and drops himself right in it.

I'm not convinced he is in the right place in Parliament. What has happened is pretty much what I thought would happen ... he's got himself offside with everyone, which is not a good thing in a parliamentarian.

Outside the political arena Hone's done a lot of good work (which few of you will know about as the media has not picked it up - just his activist/political stuff).

He'd be better off going back to what he does best - as a backroom boy - and stay out of the political limelight ... he's too much of a loose cannon at times to be in the limelight.

I would agree with your assessment of Harawira from what I've observed over the years. However I would suggest that politics is exactly where activists belong. Chameleons and masters of compromise like Sharples achieve nothing except the maintenance of the status quo, and are there only for themselves.

[oneofsix]

I would agree with your assessment of Harawira from what I've observed over the years. However I would suggest that politics is exactly where activists belong. Cameleons and masters of compromise like Sharples achieve nothing except the maintenance of the status quo, and are there only for themselves.

Is this the real reason for Hone's party?
A discreet diplomatic lunch, a free trip to Washington and assurance of "assistance" from the US Embassy in Wellington have been used to blunt the Green Party's "radical positions on many issues"
http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/poli...ikileaks-cable
He just wants his free lunch

I don't agree that activist belong in parliament. They belong outside parliament but linking to a more moderate party in parliament is a good idea. An extreme version would be the Shin Fain (must have spelt that wrong) and the IRA. Hone and Maori party could make a good partnership in this way.
On their own in parliament activist tend to become the court jester and/or whipping boy.

[MisterD]

Cameleons and masters of compromise like Sharples achieve nothing except the maintenance of the status quo, and are there only for themselves.

I disagree. Politics is all about compromise (what's the cliche? "Art of the possible"?) otherwise all you get is arguing and nothing gets done at all. In the "pro" column for MMP is that you tend to see all the inter-party deals done in public rather than intra-party deals done behind closed doors (in the "anti" column of course is that it now happens after people have actually voted).

[SPman]

Seeking a new mandate from your voters when you switch allegiance or found a new party is the done thing in New Zealand. Winston did it, and Tariana did it, because they both knew that if they did not, then they would be criticised as lacking a mandate by their former colleagues and the media. As for doing it in election year, Winston's by-election was in April, just 8 months out from the 1993 general election. Yes, it costs money, but that's the price of democracy. And if we weren't paying it, the same people now complaining about the cost would be questioning Harawira's legitimacy as a representative because he had not sought such a mandate.

There is certainly no intelligence in that political lineup, so he has to get good ideas from somewhere. (His mum should be in that party... blend right in, she would.)

Really - I would think they are some of the more intelligent people in NZ politics - unfortunately for most, they also have a surfeit of concern for ordinary people, particularly those lower down the food chain and, in the NZ media way of "kick those lower than us", also become the targets of those who can't seem to think, either, for themselves, or for others. They also have big mouths and aren't afraid to use them.
As Herman Melville once said "Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well housed, well warmed and well fed."

[Delerium]

Thanks for the compliment.

No, Hone is not one of the people I would regard as a leader. Firstly, he's not from my iwi. That makes a major difference. It may well be that enough of the people in Ngā Puhi who regard him as a leader to vote for him. Or at least regard him as a good spokesman for them. That's a major difference in Māori and non-Māori politics.

Many Māori, including myself, agree with a lot of what he says. However, I also think he opens his mouth sometimes without thinking too much .. and drops himself right in it.

I'm not convinced he is in the right place in Parliament. What has happened is pretty much what I thought would happen ... he's got himself offside with everyone, which is not a good thing in a parliamentarian.

Outside the political arena Hone's done a lot of good work (which few of you will know about as the media has not picked it up - just his activist/political stuff).

He'd be better off going back to what he does best - as a backroom boy - and stay out of the political limelight ... he's too much of a loose cannon at times to be in the limelight.

Does the iwi of which a maori belongs to still hold considerable weighting in politics and how maori vote for etc?

Genuine question, not trying to have a dig, just a bit of an unknown concept to myself is all.

[Edbear]

Thanks for the compliment.

No, Hone is not one of the people I would regard as a leader. Firstly, he's not from my iwi. That makes a major difference. It may well be that enough of the people in Ngā Puhi who regard him as a leader to vote for him. Or at least regard him as a good spokesman for them. That's a major difference in Māori and non-Māori politics.

Many Māori, including myself, agree with a lot of what he says. However, I also think he opens his mouth sometimes without thinking too much .. and drops himself right in it.

I'm not convinced he is in the right place in Parliament. What has happened is pretty much what I thought would happen ... he's got himself offside with everyone, which is not a good thing in a parliamentarian.

Outside the political arena Hone's done a lot of good work (which few of you will know about as the media has not picked it up - just his activist/political stuff).

He'd be better off going back to what he does best - as a backroom boy - and stay out of the political limelight ... he's too much of a loose cannon at times to be in the limelight.

How do you put that line above the 'a'? (Māori).

[Banditbandit]

How do you put that line above the 'a'? (Māori).

I have a keyboard set up to do it ... in most documents you can do it through symbols. All the macrons are there and you can see hot keys. On my jome PC (which is never online) I use Ctrl+Alt+ (vowel for macron) ..

[Banditbandit]

Does the iwi of which a maori belongs to still hold considerable weighting in politics and how maori vote for etc?

Genuine question, not trying to have a dig, just a bit of an unknown concept to myself is all.

Yes, it does. Not in a major way that each iwi holds meetings and discussions, but Mri do tend to vote on iwi lines. All the Māori candidates stand in electorates where they have iwi - Tarianna is Ngati Apa ... Te Ururoa Flavel is Ngati Awa, Hone is Ngā Puhi .. I'm not sure what Peter Sharples links are in Tamaki - I believe he is Ngati Kahungunu, but he does have active links through Hone Waititi marae in Auckland.

It is not likely that a Māori candidate with no links into an electorate will be elected. Such a candidate would not have the credibility with the voters, unless they were someone like Peter Shaprles who had worked in the elctorate for years.

There's basically two approaches to politics - one is the national-interest one. Historically Māori have tried to set up their own national organiations - The Kingitanga and the Kotahitanga Parliament were/are two such. They have never been successful, as many Māori do not agree to anything higher than an iwi-level organisation. The majority of contemporary Māori still subscribe to the iwi-level organisational idea. THis is largely a product of the Māori renaisense, and the schools which teach iwi/hapu/whanau-focused organisational structures.

Going back further into history, the word Iwi was translated as nation by many Māori of the 19th century - and such a translation gives a better picture of how it all operated than the trasation of iwi as tribe.

It's a complex question in many ways - but also a simple one. The answer is not likely to be elected ... It's around the concept of who do they represent? And for us The Iwi is the basic answer ...