Hone versus Brash on Close Up

[Scouse]

They are both fookin gormless coonts

[trustme]

Hone is always telling us what he wants, he never seems to be able to tell us how to achieve it. Long on rhetoric , short on specifics.
Brash should insist on a rerun dealing with the economy & Hone would be shown up for the shallow mouth that he really is.
Brash may be looking for profile but debating with Hone on maori issues alone is only ever going to leave him coming second.

[Banditbandit]

Hone is always telling us what he wants, he never seems to be able to tell us how to achieve it. Long on rhetoric , short on specifics.
Brash should insist on a rerun dealing with the economy & Hone would be shown up for the shallow mouth that he really is.
Brash may be looking for profile but debating with Hone on maori issues alone is only ever going to leave him coming second.

Hmmm ... that was an interesting play by Hone - He knows he can't take on Don Brash on economic issues .. so he didn't try. Not because he doesn't have an economic position - just can't argue it strongly against a hardliner like Brash.

As Oldrider says, Hone took over .. forced Brash to talk treaty and ethnic issues - and made him look a prat.

[MisterD]

As Oldrider says, Hone took over .. forced Brash to talk treaty and ethnic issues - and made him look a prat.

I think both will probably have reinforced their positions with their respective constituencies. Kiwiblog comments are generally giving Brash a positive report card...

[scissorhands]

I spoke with a moko wearing woman last night re Mana Party.

Hone wouldn't be in the position he is today, if it wasn't for Sharples and Turia turning red coat with the Nats.

Maori just want a voice, someone who looks after their interests.

Good for them.

[short-circuit]

I think both will probably have reinforced their positions with their respective constituencies. Kiwiblog comments are generally giving Brash a positive report card...

You read that shite as well as the shite in here? Glutton for punishment.

[short-circuit]

Maori just want a voice, someone who looks after their interests.

Good for them.

And right wingers secretly hate democracy

[Edbear]

My five year old grandson argues better...

[MisterD]

You read that shite as well as the shite in here? Glutton for punishment.

I read that shite, and Whaleoil, the Stranded, Dim-post, Kiwipolitico...don't you find that commentary and opinion is more useful when you know the bias that's been applied?

[MisterD]

Hone wouldn't be in the position he is today, if it wasn't for Sharples and Turia turning red coat with the Nats.

Maori just want a voice, someone who looks after their interests.

Good for them.

Which is all fair enough, but obviously some Maori aren't smart enough to learn from the Greens' example that if you align only with the Labour party they'll take you for granted and give you nothing.

It seems to me that Hone speaks for a percentage of Maori that would rather stick to their absolutist "principles" and chuck insults when they get nothing than compromise a bit and actually achieve some progress.

Tariana got her Whanau Ora thing through this government. Now, I don't understand it, but the point is that the Maori Party have acheived policy focussed on changing outcomes for Maori, I assume framed around Maori cultural differences, as part of a National Party lead government.

So, by all means bash Pita and Tariana for coming up with a crap policy that doesn't work (if that's the case) but it doesn't seem valid to bash them for joining the government in an attempt to make progress unavailable "outside the tent pissing in".

[Shadowjack]

Now, I don't understand it, but the point is that the Maori Party have acheived policy focussed on changing outcomes for Maori, I assume framed around Maori cultural differences, as part of a National Party lead government.

And that is an interesting point: after quickly casting my very imperfect memory over the last thirty-odd years, my observation is that the most progress in the Parliamentary and policy fields for Maori issues seems to have been made under National Governments.
Of course, John Key had the opportunity to be a bit courageous with the Tuhoe settlement, and then didn't.

[oneofsix]

the Aussie desert race on the sports channel was good

BTW which election is Hone running in, I see he thinks Osama was a freedom fighter so thought he might be running in the Al Qada bi-election

[Banditbandit]

I think both will probably have reinforced their positions with their respective constituencies. Kiwiblog comments are generally giving Brash a positive report card...

Absolutely. Neither of them are likely to convince each other's voters to change to their party ...

[Banditbandit]

And that is an interesting point: after quickly casting my very imperfect memory over the last thirty-odd years, my observation is that the most progress in the Parliamentary and policy fields for Maori issues seems to have been made under National Governments.
Of course, John Key had the opportunity to be a bit courageous with the Tuhoe settlement, and then didn't.

Yes, you make a very valid point. National Governments (primarily lead by Bolger abnd Graham) have put huge amounts of money into Treaty settlements and Māori issues over the years - millions and millions more than Labour ...

But the perception of votors doesn't square with that reality ...

And getting people to vote for you is the art of manipulating perceptions ...

[MisterD]

Of course, John Key had the opportunity to be a bit courageous with the Tuhoe settlement, and then didn't.

If there's one word that sums up John Key over the last few years, "courageous" isn't it.