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Thread: Ride the loop for MSAC as part of our first major project

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    Fixing the road will not come from MSL funds mate. Thats to be paid for from the existing budgets with the proper regional authority

    However identifying where some fixes would be beneficial to us (eg removal of roadside hazards [dont start on WRB's grr] LOS improvements etc) is the sort of thing we can research, prove or identify with projects like this.
    The Vic fund they raise from bikes is huge compared to ours, we would never be able to directly fund the engineering initiatives they have been able to.
    So how much of our $30 bucks does this consume. Ie will/should we expect other projects at the same time or in the near future?
    Last edited by Luckylegs; 10th May 2011 at 14:23. Reason: Piss poor spelling

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eyegasm View Post
    That's all good, but if improvements are to be done to roads in NZ will the same model be applied?
    The only improvement I'd like to see as a Coromandel ratepayer is for those useless bastards at Thames-Coromandel District Council to actually sweep up all the pea gravel after road patching. Not only for the safety of bikes but to protect my paintwork

    The more I look at that poster on Stone Y's original post, the more agitated I get with respect to whether attention is being diverted from the real issues. I hope Katman is right about them finding that the Coro Loop is actually fine and it's the poor riders who are the problem. I guess that scenario is too Machiavellian to be the deliberate intention of LTSA et al? . Is there any statistical evidence to suggest that road conditions are the root cause of motorcycle accidents on the Loop as opposed to rider error? Mind you, there seems to be a fair percentage of people on KB who think that formal training isn't a macho thing to do, so maybe upskilling isn't a favoured option.

    Most people ride bikes for the thrill,challenge and freedom. Similarly, most people ride the Coro Loop, Rimutakas, South Island passes etc for the thrill and challenge. By all means remove risks such as surface defects but don't remove the reason for riding those great roads by changing their characteristics!

  3. #33
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    Nah weather looks to dodgy for me

    Saturday 14 Showery. Fresh northwesterlies.
    Sunday 15 Showery. Northwesterlies turning southwest

    But then again I suppose wet roads will be factored into it.


    Quote Jan 2020 Posted by Katman

    Life would be so much easier if you addressed questions with a simple answer.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckylegs View Post
    So how much of our $30 bucks dows this consume. Ie will/should we expect other projects at the same time or in the near future?
    This first event is a test case matey.

    And I would expect yes to ongoing projects of this sort but only time will tell, I am not in a position to say much more, simply because no decisions yet made on the future of this project, the test case will set a benchmark and we will have to evaluate what we get from it.

    I'm not the comm's spokesperson for the council so have to be careful I don't make you lot here promises I cannot keep

    In this case I was told 'Brent, place this event on Kiwibiker so the masses know its happening' and that's something I am very happy to have done.

    However I don't wanna get bogged down into side discussions of whats next, what else we will do, how we can pay for x or y....just wanted to invite all who can to come ride the loop and give us some feedback, meet the councilors, and have a say at Thames Racetrack, so come meet us and say hello!

    See you all there (those who attend) I have said all i can say on this thread, so come meet us on the day
    Just ride.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    This first event is a test case matey.

    And I would expect yes to ongoing projects of this sort but only time will tell, I am not in a position to say much more, simply because no decisions yet made on the future of this project, the test case will set a benchmark and we will have to evaluate what we get from it.

    I'm not the comm's spokesperson for the council so have to be careful I don't make you lot here promises I cannot keep

    In this case I was told 'Brent, place this event on Kiwibiker so the masses know its happening' and that's something I am very happy to have done.

    However I don't wanna get bogged down into side discussions of whats next, what else we will do, how we can pay for x or y....just wanted to invite all who can to come ride the loop and give us some feedback, meet the councilors, and have a say at Thames Racetrack, so come meet us and say hello!

    See you all there (those who attend) I have said all i can say on this thread, so come meet us on the day
    Cool, cheers!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    All good points Phil but it has made a measurable difference to several black routes (motorcycle specific) in Victoria, so we have been told
    Didn't Victoria have a significant increase in motorcycle accidents, particularly in the rural areas, over the last three years compared to the trend for the last decade?

    My impression was that the most recent changes to their safety program in Australia (over the last 5 years) weren't working.

    Just did a quick Google, and found this paper by Monash University. I particularly like this quote:
    http://www.monash.edu.au/cemo/roadsa...motorcycle.pdf
    Overall, Australia ranked sixth worst amongst the 23 OECD nations
    rated in respect of motorcycle fatalities. This compares unfavourably with Australia’s fatality rate for all road
    users per 10,000 registered motor vehicles of 1.5 – below the OECD median of 2 fatalities per 10,000 registered
    vehicles- which placed it equal sixth within the group of 23 OECD countries compared.
    You have my warm support, because doing nothing will result in no change - but do you think modelling the NZ system after the the sixth worst country in the OECD for motorcycle fatalities is wise?

    Could we perhaps choose a country in the top half instead?


    You might also find this study into the Victorian "Motorycle Safety Levy" (funny, that name sounds familiar) also of interest:
    http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedi...aaustralia.pdf
    Funnily enough, they also added a levy onto every motorcyclist. About half way down is how they chose to spend their levy funds.

  7. #37
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    Which Route?

    I just had a look at the flyer on 1st post. It shows the loop taking in Kopu hill, Whangamata-Waihi-Paeroa- Thames. Is this the route planned?

    Just going by the "Coromandel Loop" title I would've gone sailing through Thames, up to Coromandel, HW25 to Whitianga-Hukuai, back to Kopu. . Incidently, how far is this run distance wise?
    " Rule books are for the Guidance of the Wise, and the Obedience of Fools"

  8. #38
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    Just short of 200km, Kopu-Kopu

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I imagine all it's going to tell us is that the road is perfectly safe.......
    ......if it is ridden safely.
    At a reduced speed limit, while wearing hi viz vests...

    Reckon I could ride the loop, at legal speeds (now) and live to tell the tale...

    I imagine I may be able to ride it at a little better than legal speeds and do the same, with no hint of a hi viz anywhere...

    It will however give a bit of a step up to the people involved in organising it...

    Will look good on their CV's
    Quote Originally Posted by Gubb View Post
    Nonono,

    He rides the Leprachhaun at the end of the Rainbow. Usually goes by the name Anne McMommus

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by p.dath View Post
    About half way down is how they chose to spend their levy funds.
    Bulk of it makes sense.

    Treat motorcycle run-off-road blackspots (Run-off-road crashes)

    Treat motorcycle blackspots (not run-off-road) (Intersection crashes)

    Treat selected high-volume motorcycle routes (Road surface and environmental hazards)

    Which begs the question: Why the poor results, (if, indeed that's where the funds have gone).

    I notice their accident demographics differ from ours significantly, notably across the age / experience range.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  11. #41
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    So which of "The options" will be "owned" by the "Motorcyclists" on this ride?

    Do we really need a bunch of ACC sponsored motorcyclists recommending that the coro loop needs straightening out?

    Maybe more WRBs will be a great improvement? TBTP love them and have a crapload of statistics showing how much safer they make the roads.

    More white paint?

    I'm really looking forward to the report that comes out of this one. There will be a report right?

    I won't be on the ride, but the biggest hazard I've encountered on the loop is cages on my side of the road coming toward me. I'm glad I'm paying more than them so that somebody else might figure this out too.
    Keep on chooglin'

  12. #42
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    It seems to me to be a flawed test right from the get go. It is all very well to have someone ride a sensor laden bike around the loop (all the while knowing they are being monitored) but unless they are willing to just ride it like they normally would then what is the point?

    But, we have to consider what will happen in a perfect world. The sensor logs are examined. Various councils take ownership of signage issues. Road surface is all fixed up and the road is proudly pronounced "Bike Safe" and a shining example of how much the government cares. And then some squid or pretend Rossi will ride into the front of a camper van as he knew he could go fast. The road is safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mully
    The mind boggles.

    Unless you were pillioning the sheep - which is more innocent I suppose (but no less baffling)

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    This is far more than a mere video assessment of the road, the bike has computerized g-force meters, gyroscopes, you name it.

    Its going to capture data on camber effects, line of sight issues specific to a motorcyclist (such as visual assessment of the exit line in a corner, is that tree/post/bus shelter poorly placed in the riders LOS) things that from a motorcycling perspective just cannot be measured from the car that they use for Kiwi Wrap
    Don't take this the wrong way, but I do wonder what the information collected is going to achieve. Gyroscopes? I bet ten people riding the same SV in the same conditions will get different results. Entry speed, exit speed, corner speed, braking point, lane position, lean angle, tyres, trailing brakes, acceleration point, what’s for tea, how’s the dog, what’s the dog having for tea etc etc. Thousands of things affect the readings. G-force is much the same. Shit, I ride an SV thou and if I manage the same line twice in a week I'm happy.

    While at first glance the video assessment sounds good, there are plenty of corners out there right now with trees on the inside that restrict through visibility that will never be cut down. They aren’t going to start chopping them down so mad bike riders can see the exit and go faster. That’s where things fall down to me. They can’t afford to fix things for cars, I don’t see how they are going to fix things for bikes.

    While KiwiRAP only measured the roadside environment (which is a constant, unlike any measures driven by rider/driver inputs), NZTA already collect geometry and skid resistance across the whole state highway network on an annual basis. For instance they know the camber, superelevation and relative skid resistance of every 10m of the network. Call me a cynic, but I just cannot see what this data is going to be used for.

    Quote Originally Posted by StoneY View Post
    Do you really think the NZTA experts, (and I do mean EXPERTS) didn't think of that mate? the national Driving Standards manager is in behind this one.
    You would hope so, seeing as he was on the original MSL committee. Unfortunately the things being measured are not related to driving standards but engineering. A whole different department needs to get behind this one if it is going to go anywhere after the bike is shipped back. You say it was their idea so I guess we shall see.

    Just thoughts. Good luck with it all the same.

  14. #44
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    Turns out I misunderstood the bike situation and where it came from
    The Ozzie one was not shipped, we have kitted out a bike provided locally by a supportive industry entity. Saved a few grand that did!

    Seriously all, the people running this have only got one aim, to improve our stats, and spend the money as wisely and frugally as possible.

    I am still unhappy we get singled out you know, so when I was asked to be a part of this I went along to ensure that the money is not merely spent on telling you to wear a hi viz, and allowing some faceless bean counter to tick a 'job done' box while we all bleed from our wallet pocket.
    I chose to be a part of this for my own reasons, and not to let some bean counter take control of the money we spend.

    My own philosophy on these issues is somewhere between BRONZ and MAGs attitude's mixed with a pinch of Katmans messages.
    I still think there is a lot to be learned about our roads, and this project will help in regards bike specific data capture regardless what has gone before.
    I believe Charley lamb's data over and above any govt report as well, and trust me that gets some interesting discussion amongst the group


    However now I am on the MSAC I have to be seen to be supportive of the initiative, (which in all honesty I am).
    The team I work with on the projects are passionate about motorcycle safety, all ride bikes, are well respected within the organizations they came into this from,(except maybe with the exception of myself lol) and are truly doing the best we collectively can to look after YOUR money.

    Those who can should come meet us at Thames on Sunday, you can ask us the hard questions face to face, and I would dearly love to put some faces to the names here from the northern bunch of Kiwibikers.
    Just ride.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post

    Most people ride bikes for the thrill,challenge and freedom. Similarly, most people ride the Coro Loop, Rimutakas, South Island passes etc for the thrill and challenge. By all means remove risks such as surface defects but don't remove the reason for riding those great roads by changing their characteristics!
    We will never have to worry about local authorities changing the overall characteristics of our roads. Unless they can find someone else to pay for it.

    Personally, I believe that sweeping loose chips off all repairs, patches, alterations would go a big way towards increasing riding fun and safer roads.

    After all, how much would it cost to run a tractor with a road sweep brush mounted, across any finished repairs.( compared to the cost of roadside mowers) All earthmoving co's have them. Should be a mandatory inclusion in any roading contract.
    " Rule books are for the Guidance of the Wise, and the Obedience of Fools"

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