CBR250R vs Ninja 250R vs Hyosung(ATK)250R (MCN Review)

[steve_t]

Read the first paragraph. Don't worry i didn't and it had me wondering for awhile!

*edit*
Ok not first paragraph but its here anyway

Yeah, I read that but wasn't sure if the Utah based firm, ATK, would have any influence over the name here. S&T Motors doesn't quite have the same ring to it.

What's the point in a single cylinder CBR?

Learner/entry level bike - cheaper to manufacture, cheaper to maintain

[Urano]

They are getting slower and perhaps heavier - but easier to ride and perhaps more fun as as a commuter / learners machine.

the fact is in the 80-90's bikers had learned how to ride on sporty little 50cc and 125cc 2 strokes, which were light, agile and powerful.
when they had to move up, the "big bike" was a highly specialistic 500 or 600.

then the market of mini sport bikes have been killed: here by the pollution regos, and the emerging countries still need small moped and scooters.

the result is that now 250cc 4 strokes are something similar to olds 125 2 strokes, with the added problem of factory cost management needed in crisis times.

our old 125s were almost all monocylinder.
it was good for us, it could be good now.

now when you move up you land often on surface-to-surface missiles of 1000cc.
ya, they are surely easier to ride than most of the old 500, but they still have insane performances.

i believe it's a good thing: they are trying to recreate "real" entry level bikes to teach new bikers how to ride. what actually is considered an "entry level" bike is often a relatively heavy and powerful 600cc with some cost-effective structural choice which doesn't truly permit training and learning without risking the life...

i often wondered if it would have been possible (and enjoyable) to go back on an old aprilia futura 125. i've even found a guy, last summer, who sold one for 500 euro.
even taking count of the need to completely dismantle and rebuilt the engine and check the frame, it would have been a good result with a cost of maybe 1000-1200 euros total.
but at the end i remained on my er6: after all i am already on the higher side...
now i'm in evaluation for a new hornet s (ya, the cbr600f, but i can't call it with that name: still have too much respect for the real one...)

Pretty sure the Aus & NZ versions are faster - the yank version using catalytic systems still yea?

why? are you not?

[jaffaonajappa]

catalytic converters - nope. not usually.

[Urano]

so... you are not going after any pollution reducing program as the "euro something"...?

i could maybe understand that in nz it could be not necessary due to the low population, but after all, for what i've seen, in auckland there's a beautiful mess of traffic and jams...
and oz should be worst...

do your politics believe it is not useful?

[Beren]

That really doesn't sound like particularly impressive figures - not sure if my little bandit will beat those numbers, but I'd bet it would be bloody close. Bearing in mind my machine is 14 years old that seems a little backward. Would have been interested to see if they could have got a couple of stock IL4's just to compare against.

[sil3nt]

4 cylinder bandit with 40-45hp vs 1 cylinder CBR with 30 HP yeah i would hope your bandit beats their figures!

[ducatilover]

It's sad that 250cc bikes have gone backwards.
They don't handle as well.
They don't go as well.
They don't stop as well.
If we still got 4 cyl 250cc bikes they would probably be uber expensive though.

One thing I can't understand is why the VTR250 that replaced the Spada has less power/torque.... why not keep the same tooling and keep the VTR at 40hp? I imagine the sales would have been far greater when compared to the Hyosung and Kawasaki, with the possibility of the competition making better bikes.
They aren't even a shadow of the 250 4T heyday.

[aprilia_RS250]

Are those hp and torque numbers correct, shit they're low!

So in like a decade when all the 80-90s CBRs, rgvs etc are gone/binned/banned new riders will be learning to ride on a 2 wheel bicycles that give em ~20hp, then they'll jump on 200hp 1000cc bike....

[Ender EnZed]

It's sad that 250cc bikes have gone backwards.
....
They don't stop as well.

Really? That Ninja stopped from 60mph in 37.0 metres and the others weren't far behind. I have no idea what old 250s would manage but I doubt it would be less than that.

[ducatilover]

Really? That Ninja stopped from 60mph in 37.0 metres and the others weren't far behind. I have no idea what old 250s would manage but I doubt it would be less than that.

The CBR250RR was a smidge over 35 meters, the ZXR250C was around the same, the two strokes like the NSR/RS/RGV/TZR were reportedly slightly better on the brakes.
I had a magazine article somewhere.

The soft suspension on the newer 250cc bkes does not help their case at all.

[Beren]

4 cylinder bandit with 40-45hp vs 1 cylinder CBR with 30 HP yeah i would hope your bandit beats their figures!

Aye - I don't know what mine is pumping out now was the only thing. Also took SH16 with the inlaws and the Bandit kept up nicely - the only thing slowing it down really was me! That said I think it sat in the 12-15,000 rpm band for almost the entire trip. It has to be up there to kick out the power it needed to be pushing out of the corners at 100+ which is probably stressing the engine out a little? Up there it was also thirstier than the 750 and 650 I was riding with...

-edit- as for braking - I doubt there is a lot of difference... those new bikes are not any lighter, so as long as the disk can cope you are just talking about traction... so surely it's just the rubber and suspension?

[Ender EnZed]

The CBR250RR was a smidge over 35 meters, the ZXR250C was around the same, the two strokes like the NSR/RS/RGV/TZR were reportedly slightly better on the brakes.

I stand corrected. Do you know what the figures for the older 4 stroke twins were like?

[ducatilover]

I stand corrected. Do you know what the figures for the older 4 stroke twins were like?

My VT250 Spada with proper fork oil and EBC pads seemed to out stop the Hyosung, never got the chance to compare with the Kawasaki though. It may have been rider + superior feel through my brakes though.

[lostinflyz]

can anyone imagine the cost of a modern 250 4 pot??? It would be AT LEAST double the price of the current batch of 250's. (about 6-7k new) So would you willingly pay somewhere in the region of 14-16 thousand dollars for a 250!!!!

I wish honda still made v4 exotic race replica's but the reality is the market for 40-50k race replica bikes is farkin slim too.

[jaffaonajappa]

so... you are not going after any pollution reducing program as the "euro something"...?

i could maybe understand that in nz it could be not necessary due to the low population, but after all, for what i've seen, in auckland there's a beautiful mess of traffic and jams...
and oz should be worst...

do your politics believe it is not useful?

Hmmm. interesting point.
Yes - we pride ourselves on Clean and Green. We almost shot ourselves in the collective foot again - trying to "lead the world" - carbon tax credit /buy in.
But no = we dont use catalytic converters - and kiwi bike/car models are usually the 'full power' versions of whats available.

I guess bikers are willing to make concession at times.
I like the kiwi greenery ( ) but also think the day california introduced their 2 stroke and catalytic restrictions was one of the saddest periods ever.

My Guzzi came with some huuuuge heavy as hell exhaust with some kind of restriction just aft of the header pipes - in the crossover. Swapped it for some cycleworks pipes after 1 week - 19hp increase on the dyno, and an aaaaaaawesome sound.