I don't know what annoys me the most about this article...

[Ender EnZed]

If we create a new us them issues like the foreshore and sdea bed will disappear - because it will be OURS. Not Maori, not Pākehā - not white, not black .. but OURS ...

We're still waiting for you all to become US. (we will not have to wait much longer because the next generation will be US.)

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. How does this differ from the likes of Don Brash?

[Banditbandit]

The Queen's chain had been diluted to such an extent that it was no longer solid that the seabed and foreshore was 'ours' and that it couldn't be sold and privatised. The initial idea was to prevent privatisation of the seabed and foreshore. An original Maori stance was that their culture would ensure it would be held in trust for all NZers like they aren't human or something. Well to be fair (on KB?) the ones that originally said that probably meant it but then the 'other' Maori's decided they could try blocking access and charging and other tricks.

"The Queen's chain" was never a legal concept in New Zealand ...

As I said above, access to the beaches and sea is dependent on landowners -both Maori and Pakeha .. and Pakeha ownwers block access just as mucvh as Maori - they just don't get in the media doing it as often ...

And yes, some Māori thought it was a good idea to block access - a stupid idea in some cases - justified in others .. just as some Pākehā blocking access are justified ..

The concept that the foreshore and seabed could be privatised and sold is only a concept in Pākehā culture. That was never an issue for us - but Pākehā have projected their concept of ownership onto our culture and their fears as well. (Now, I'm NOT saying that soem Māori might not try to sell the F/seabed .. we are all human and some of us are greedy and exploitative and others are not - I'd be very stupid indeed to claim that all Maori are perfect and all Pakeha bad - Maori who tried to sell off f/seabed would have no support from the majority of Maori)

[Banditbandit]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. How does this differ from the likes of Don Brash?

It differs from the likes of Don Brash in that we would integrate you into our culture ..

Don Brash expects all Maori to become Pakeha ... we don not expect all Pakeha to become Maori .. brash and his ilk remain colonizers ..

There are two cultures in New ZEaland - Maori and Pakeha (yeah and a few other minorities - buty two major ones).
If we are going to be One Culture I'd prefer it to be an amalgum of the best of Maori and the best of Pakeha - but Don Brash wants us to be all Pakeha culture.

Most Maori who actually think about it want the same as me - the best of both ... and that will happen - we are intermarrying very fast and producing a new group of people - of mixed racial decsent ... and they wuill be of mixed culture.

And, here's a little more self-serving reason for you to change. BY the year 2050 the prediction is that the majority population in New Zealand will be of Polynesian-descent - that's Maori and Pasifica with European ancestory as well. But they will Identify strongly as Maori and Pasifica .. This means that the majority workforce will be Maori/Pacifica .. the majority of taxpayers supporting your superannuation will be Maori and Pasifica ... (and think of the current row over superannuation payments into the future - can we afford them?) Will they want to keep paying out benefits for the old white population that pissed them off?

You future security in old age depends in an educated and high earning Maori and Pacifica population paying taxes . not the unemployed or low wage earning Maori and Pasifica population we currently have .. better get with it and help us secure your future!!! You've got 40 years ...

[SMOKEU]

See .. that's you're problem!!!

I will stop calling you Pakeha if you stop thinking of us as different ..and stop being racist.

I challenge you name any difference between Maori, (whatever you want to call yourself) and the Blacks of South Africa (apart from phenotype) THAT I CAN NOT PUT BACK AT YOU AS SOMETHING HUMAN - a Human thing to do. We are all human beings ...

See when white people arrived here we knew what to do .. we knew how to integrate new immigrants into US. We'd done it many times before. But White people didn't - they came to take over ... now you want Maori to become YOU on your terms. We don't want Pākehā to become us on our terms ..

Now, we still want to integrate the new people into us. Many people who experience our culture for the first time find how welcoming it it is. We can still do it. In fact, we are doing it - we are sleeping with you and we are producing a new people who wil be decended from both of us .. and will see themselves as US.

If we create a new us them issues like the foreshore and sdea bed will disappear - because it will be OURS. Not Maori, not Pākehā - not white, not black .. but OURS ...

We're still waiting for you all to become US. (we will not have to wait much longer because the next generation will be US.)

Mmmkay, well I don't have any problems with Maori people if they are good, honest people. I've met some very nice Maori people who have been very welcoming to me and treated me with a lot of respect.

However, I don't like the fact that many Maoris think they own everything. Maoris are immigrants to NZ as well, they ARE NOT NATIVE TO NZ! There are quite a few Maori people out there who think they own all the rivers and the sea, they think they own everything. I went out to a popular duck hunting spot a few weeks ago (Lake Ellesmere), and there was a fish and game sign there saying something along the lines of "This land is owned by xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Maori tribe. Please respect their land etc etc etc." This is bullshit because it should be ordinary government land, not given away to the Maoris for free.

The fact that Maori people get special treatment is what is extremely racist. In order for this country to move forward, we need to give EVERY NZ citizen equal rights, regardless of race. The NZ government and the Maoris are some of the most racist people around because they favour Maori people over white people. I'm an immigrant to NZ, just like the Maori people. Why can't I start a tribe and get some free land? It's because I'm not black!

[Banditbandit]

It's because I'm not black!

Bwhahahaha ... the idea of you as black just cracked me up ... I nearly choked on my coffee .. I'll reply to the rest when I've had a smoke and a think .. (or at least a smoke.)

[Camshaft]

It's just another case where the Maoris are trying to claim shit that they don't own.
First it was the land and sea, now this. Just ignore them because if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

+100000000000000000000000

[Camshaft]

Just a question, what is actually meant by celtic? (Not the football team!)

well there is an interesting book outlining the possibility of the celts beeen in nz before the moriori, the moriori thn came and took the country killing and reting the celt, then a time after. the maori came and ate and killed the moriori, and thats why there are many similarites between ancient celtic design and maori design, part of the culture was adapted.

[oneofsix]

If we are going to be One Culture I'd prefer it to be an amalgum of the best of Maori and the best of Pakeha - but Don Brash wants us to be all Pakeha culture.

You give Don too wide a scope. He doesn't care about Pakeha culture or culture at all. He wants every one to be greedy little capitalist lackeys where the only culture is making money. Maori, like a lot of pagans have a more holistic culture where environment, tribe, relationships are important. By relationships read wider than personal, Don would care about his own family but the rest of you are just there to provide income for them.

[SMOKEU]

Bwhahahaha ... the idea of you as black just cracked me up ... I nearly choked on my coffee .. I'll reply to the rest when I've had a smoke and a think .. (or at least a smoke.)

I was thinking of painting my face black and calling myself "Tahu" or "Rangi", maybe then I'll score myself some free stuff g.

[Ender EnZed]

It differs from the likes of Don Brash in that we would integrate you into our culture ..

I'm sure there are Brash supporters who would use the word integrate, but I kind of understand what you're getting at here.

If we are going to be One Culture I'd prefer it to be an amalgum of the best of Maori and the best of Pakeha
....
Most Maori who actually think about it want the same as me - the best of both

I doubt anyone would disagree with you on that.

And, here's a little more self-serving reason for you to change. BY the year 2050 the prediction is that the majority population in New Zealand will be of Polynesian-descent - that's Maori and Pasifica with European ancestory as well. But they will Identify strongly as Maori and Pasifica .. This means that the majority workforce will be Maori/Pacifica .. the majority of taxpayers supporting your superannuation will be Maori and Pasifica ... (and think of the current row over superannuation payments into the future - can we afford them?) Will they want to keep paying out benefits for the old white population that pissed them off?

You future security in old age depends in an educated and high earning Maori and Pacifica population paying taxes . not the unemployed or low wage earning Maori and Pasifica population we currently have .. better get with it and help us secure your future!!! You've got 40 years ...

What do you actually want me to do? How should Pakeha change?

[oneofsix]

You future security in old age depends in an educated and high earning Maori and Pacifica population paying taxes . not the unemployed or low wage earning Maori and Pasifica population we currently have .. better get with it and help us secure your future!!! You've got 40 years ...

So much in this one bit.
F... another 40 years?! I wont last that long.
My future security in old age depends on low wage earning Maori and Pasifica population we currently have. After all apart from the Asians who are the majority of the workers in the rest homes?
NZ is part of Pasific ? White, black, brown the whole lot.
Part of the cultural difference trottered out so often between 'white' and Maori or Pasifica is the attitude to work and money. Are you not therefore arguing for the Maori adoption of the 'Don Brash' attitude to provide the higher wages?
It is a bit like with retirement versus unemployment. Instead of the IMF supported raising of the retirement age I would suggest get ride of the old fuckers, send them off to spend their money creating employment in the service and manufacturing sectors and let the young have a go at starting their careers.

[Oscar]

I find it amazing that a Maori academic, educated in a University using European ‎concepts of education in a language that is not his own, has the gall to claim, ‎using the threat of English law, that a style of art belongs to one people.‎

[jasonu]

I have to ask... When did the last full blooded Moari pass away?

Hasn't it been "US" for quite some time already? All those with Treaty claims lodged, They are not "US" yet I dear say that none of them are FULL blooded Maoris, they breed themselves out. Maoris these days have only a percentage of Maori in them.

As far as I am concerned, born here not born here, New Zealand is for New Zealanders. Colour of your skin should not determine what you think you are entitled to.

And plus Hone is the most racist person in NZ!!!

Well said that man. NZ just isn't big enough for one rule for you and another for me. That is what is tearing the place apart. Some think that because their very distant relations lived in NZ before Europeans arrived the country owes them a living. How about, as in the above quote, NZ is for NZ'ers no matter what the skin color.
Get a job, stop worring about what others are doing, stop looking for handouts and get on with it!!!

[BoristheBiter]

I

If we are going to be One Culture I'd prefer it to be an amalgum of the best of Maori and the best of Pakeha

.

So what's the best of Maori?
I have yet to see anything i would want other than all the free stuff.

[Banditbandit]

You give Don too wide a scope. He doesn't care about Pakeha culture or culture at all. He wants every one to be greedy little capitalist lackeys where the only culture is making money. Maori, like a lot of pagans have a more holistic culture where environment, tribe, relationships are important. By relationships read wider than personal, Don would care about his own family but the rest of you are just there to provide income for them.

Absolutely !!! Don't get me started on a Marxist rant !!!!