The wisdom behind student loans?

[oldrider]

Food for thought? perhaps! http://www.lewrockwell.com/slavo/slavo38.1.html

How does this relate to our own situation?

[Indiana_Jones]

A rather depressing piece lol.

As mentioned in the other student loan thread, the problem I see is that kids a spoon feed through highschool that if you don't go to Uni, you're a loser. Of course the uni's will be pushing this idea along fully, bums on seats etc.

I personally think it's not the best idea for a highschool grad to go to uni doing a course if they have no idea what they want to do, or because they think they have to.

The actual loan bit isn't really an issue if you use the said degree for a job. Where as you see a lot of BA grads doing it 'just for interests sake'

-Indy

[Banditbandit]

Yes. part of the problem is that we have made fetishes of qualifications - in the past a job someone wouldhave got off the street (and done it really well) they now need a certificate for - and jobs that required a certificate now need a degee .. and peopel who would have been really good at those jobs are struggling to cope in classrooms - in uni or polytechs. I've even seen a unit standard for mucking out a stable - a course in shovelling shit for good sake ...

Another part of the problem is that many institutes, such as unis, exist for the staff - to do research, etc etc, and don't exist for the students .. I've talked to many uni teachers who see students as a hassle, who get in the way of the "really important things" like research ...

I didn't go straight from school to uni .. took a few years for me to get there ...

I believe everyne should be entitled to 15 years free education - the first 10 are compulsory - in school from 5 to 15 years old - the other 5 should be available for future education - enought to get a bachelors degree - the rest you pay for (either with cash of loan) .. (I'm prepared to accept some kind ofee at tertiary level - paid for with a loan or cash - but it should be a low level as education benefits us all.)

[Paul in NZ]

Yes. part of the problem is that we have made fetishes of qualifications - in the past a job someone wouldhave got off the street (and done it really well) they now need a certificate for - and jobs that required a certificate now need a degee .. and peopel who would have been really good at those jobs are struggling to cope in classrooms - in uni or polytechs. I've even seen a unit standard for mucking out a stable - a course in shovelling shit for good sake ...

Another part of the problem is that many institutes, such as unis, exist for the staff - to do research, etc etc, and don't exist for the students .. I've talked to many uni teachers who see students as a hassle, who get in the way of the "really important things" like research ...

I didn't go straight from school to uni .. took a few years for me to get there ...

I believe everyne shouldeb entitled to 1`5 years free education - the first 10 are compulsory - in school from 5 to 15 years old - the other 5 should be available for future education - enought to get a bacherlors degree - the rest you pay for (either with cash of loan) .. (I'm prepared to accept some kind ofee at tertiary level - paid for with a loan or cash - but it should be a low level as education benefits us all.)

Sensible post.

However I question how many loans are going to sensible qualifications. Near where I work some outfit runs course for 'travel' and I see these squads of hopefull air hostesses daily - oh dear god - they try so hard to get the look and miss by sooooo much its painful and yet the place encourages them - and takes the grant money. Its just so sad and criminal.

There are a lot of organisations out there organising these loans for dodgy qualifications - its got to stop....

[avgas]

I think we should nip it in the bud really.
I mean people can't waste tax payers money on stupid courses if they don't go to uni.
And they don't go to uni if they are not born.

Lets promote abortions and make people have to acquire breeding certificates.
Viola! No more student loan problems cos no more moron students.

.....Seriously...... if someone wants to argue the economics of student loans

What next, the lack of useful investment in super? I mean they are going to die anyway why spend any money on em.

[schrodingers cat]

I think we should nip it in the bud really.
I mean people can't waste tax payers money on stupid courses if they don't go to uni.
And they don't go to uni if they are not born.

Lets promote abortions and make people have to acquire breeding certificates.
Viola! No more student loan problems cos no more moron students.

.....Seriously...... if someone wants to argue the economics of student loans

What next, the lack of useful investment in super? I mean they are going to die anyway why spend any money on em.

You didn't learn much in school did you? Or in the great university of life?

Head. Arse. Suggest you seperate

[avgas]

You didn't learn much in school did you? Or in the great university of life?

More than you can imagine.

[jaffaonajappa]

I dont think its as black and white as some think.

I have two kids. One loves school, enjoys learning, debating, researching homework - extending her skills and knowledge. She keen as hell to continue learning as long as she can. Regardless of what career/job she thinks she would want to do, she wants to study and learn more, for now. So....she will be going to Uni.

Skid #2. Likes life, quick wins, lives for Rugby, and learns by trial and error. Hes quite bright, but just not interested (yet?) in academia. Hes probably not interested in Uni.

I cannot pay for either kids tertiary education, sadly. I can support (house/feed/clothe etc) them for the duration - but am convincing them they wouldnt like this (bwahahaha).

Thank god we have affordable tertiary education in this country. And the ability to pay it back down the track. The real issue here....I think...is what steps are we willing to take to ensure higher education recipients Repay them loans. Should we ban them from laving NZ till its repaid?

[JimO]

both my 19 yo twins are at Otago Uni one doing 1st year health sci and the other doing law/accounting and i would rather my taxes go towards their education than to the deadbeats on a benifet

[short-circuit]

New Zealanders used to have a reputation for being egalitarian...it's up there with the claim of being "clean and green" - no Tui for me thanks I don't drink

[jaffaonajappa]

New Zealanders used to have a reputation for being egalitarian...it's up there with the claim of being "clean and green" - no Tui for me thanks I don't drink

Hmmm. Not sure just how tongue-in-cheek you intended that post to be.
Egalitarian? Still think we take pride in being so - well comapred to loads of other nations.
Clean and Green? Well....ummm. We advertise it. Most of us think it. But we sure as hell arent yet practicing it....dare say we scarcely deserve this land, the way its being thrashed. But oops....my beers warming up.

[short-circuit]

Hmmm. Not sure just how tongue-in-cheek you intended that post to be.
Egalitarian? Still think we take pride in being so - well comapred to loads of other nations.
Clean and Green? Well....ummm. We advertise it. Most of us think it. But we sure as hell arent yet practicing it....dare say we scarcely deserve this land, the way its being thrashed. But oops....my beers warming up.

Not sure how head-up-arse your post is supposed to be - my tongue is fully centralized.

It would appear that a good number here would be glad to see a return to zero education for the poor and children up mine shafts

[jaffaonajappa]

Not sure how head-up-arse your post is supposed to be - my tongue is fully centralized.

It would appear that a good number here would be glad to see a return to zero education for the poor and children up mine shafts

Ahhhh. We should return to the pre 90's - and free tertiary education for all? I hear the Chinese would be willing to bankroll this for another decade. Till they foreclose all our mortgages and took the land of us. Im not sure they be keen on honouring that old 160 years ago treaty thingy either.

I think that social experiment has finnished.

[short-circuit]

Ahhhh. We should return to the pre 90's - and free tertiary education for all? I hear the Chinese would be willing to bankroll this for another decade. Till they foreclose all our mortgages and took the land of us. Im not sure they be keen on honouring that old 160 years ago treaty thingy either.

I think that social experiment has finnished.

Case in point. Enjoy your Tui...and your tax cut.

[avgas]

It would appear that a good number here would be glad to see a return to zero education for the poor and children up mine shafts

Can't use that one anymore. Working up a mine shaft pays more than the average grad job. We keep running out of poor kids to put up there. Bastards keep getting their kids educated.

Thank god for robots. Otherwise Fonterra would have been a flop.