Advanced Rider Training

[raftn]

Good thread Mom, and a very relevant one. Unfortunatly the very people who should be reading this thread never venture into this part of the forum.

I was in the exact situation as you, and was embarressed at how I had managed to stay alive on the bike with out any formal training. Being passionate about something, doesnt mean you are any good at it! Becoming a well skilled rider is a lifetime experince and does not end once you have a license.

What many new and born again riders dont relise, is how much skill they are actually lacking, and when they do relise it is to late. This hearbreaking thought came to me as I stood over the coffin of a very young work collegue.

Since I attended a couple of sessions with Tricia, I have noticed a marked improvement, especially at how I am handling the bike at slow speed and hazard awareness. It certainly was a humbling experince, yet as you so well said, a dollar value cannot be put on it.

You have shown a great deal of courage by saying what you have, admitting your faults, but more improtantly doing some thing about it. Hopefully your actions will encourage others to embark on the same journey. There is nothing wrong about coming on here and being truthful.......

I am sure also you are enjoying your biking far more now than ever before. Thanks for sharing this story, I think it is one that more people need to read, and in doing so may be motivated to eat humble pie and go out and get some decent training.

[zeocen]

As one step toward improving bike handling skills I'd like to see a lot more motorcyclists getting involved in the gymkhana type events - the sort that only the Japanese (and American police riders) seem to excel at.

I would love to have a go at this shit, seriously. I see them on YouTube and it just makes me want to have a go instantly.

My only reservation is that I don't fancy dropping my daily mode of transport, because I need it to get to work (and it's shiny and pretty) so it would be awesome if there was such an event where they had a few shitters with crash bars you could have a merry ol' time on. Either that or there could be a beginners version where I could hone some skills but not fear of dropping my bike from pushing my low-speed boundaries.

Seriously, I really, really would love to do Gymkhana.

[Katman]

I would love to have a go at this shit, seriously. I see them on YouTube and it just makes me want to have a go instantly.

My only reservation is that I don't fancy dropping my daily mode of transport, because I need it to get to work (and it's shiny and pretty) so it would be awesome if there was such an event where they had a few shitters with crash bars you could have a merry ol' time on. Either that or there could be a beginners version where I could hone some skills but not fear of dropping my bike from pushing my low-speed boundaries.

Seriously, I really, really would love to do Gymkhana.

I believe racefactory was keen to get an event like this happening. You could PM him and see if it might be something you could work in with him on.

[Maha]

I would love to have a go at this shit, seriously. I see them on YouTube and it just makes me want to have a go instantly.

My only reservation is that I don't fancy dropping my daily mode of transport, because I need it to get to work (and it's shiny and pretty) so it would be awesome if there was such an event where they had a few shitters with crash bars you could have a merry ol' time on. Either that or there could be a beginners version where I could hone some skills but not fear of dropping my bike from pushing my low-speed boundaries.

Seriously, I really, really would love to do Gymkhana.

I have always maintained that, 'With the right people behind an idea, it takes bugger all for it to be a success'.

The first step is always the hardest. Once thast been given a kick, the snowball effect becomes evident.

[Gone Burger]

I was lucky enough to get on an Advanced Rider Training course last weekend with Andrew Templeton www.roadsafe.co.nz (Thank you Upper Hutt Council for sponsoring it). Slow speed manouvering, emergency stopping, ride awareness.... the list goes on. Learnt so much and realised that I have so much more to learn.
Looking to do the next stage ASAP.

I tried to get on this course Kenny - whilst still in my halo. I was very willing to do the half day of theory, and then watch from the side the practical. They responded and said "they can not accomodate Katie-Jane" and I was annoyed. Me, who crashed badly, who obviously needs more training, and is willing to do so before I am even back on the road, and they feel it is not necessary for me to attend, becuase I couldn't do the riding side of it. I will try again for the July course. But what more can I do? Stay off a bike for the next 6 months and forget alot of the theory I have learnt from the other 5 training courses I attended, because I am not using it and keeping it all familiar? Doesn't this mean I will be a bigger risk getting back on the road because I will have much further to go to get back to where I was pre-accident?

I do know many friends who have been riding for years have decided to go an upskill, and attened courses like these, either for free or pay to attend ones like Pro Rider courses. I respect them fully, especially when they are experienced riders. But it is not above them to learn further and be taught. There are however many who DO think they are too good for these courses and will be hard pushed to attend. This is why I have been attending courses since day one, and will continue to attend any that I can.

5 motorcycle accidents in the Wellington region that I know of in the weekend just gone. Pretty shocking numbers right there. Think you have a very valid point mom, and there is plenty of proof to back it up.

[matdaymon]

I've only been riding a couple of years now, am still to get through the restricted stage of my licence and on to my full. Think I have 12months left of something. I'm in no hurry to get my full and won't be wasting my money on the 'defensive driving course' which I personally think should be banned it is that ineffective.

I would much rather spend the money on doing one of these courses or in an ideal world both one of these and a track course as I one day want to get out on the track for shits and giggles.

Anyway for someone in my position, being a student with no income, only mode of transport is the bike and seemingly no chance of a job from the 23 negative applications for jobs I'm qualified for in the past 6months the cost of these courses is the main off-putting factor. Much like the first aid course I'd like to do, I simply cannot spare the cash to go and do a training course.

If only that ACC rip off on my rego gave me a discount on these kinds of courses... NOW THERE IS AN IDEA NICK SMITH & CO!

[The End]

Anyway for someone in my position, being a student with no income, only mode of transport is the bike and seemingly no chance of a job from the 23 negative applications for jobs I'm qualified for in the past 6months the cost of these courses is the main off-putting factor. Much like the first aid course I'd like to do, I simply cannot spare the cash to go and do a training course.

This was exactly the point I was going to raise.

The cost of rider tuition is too much for some people and so they choose not to participate in it. The old "she'll be right" attitude takes over and they assume they don't need the training.

That and knowing that there are actually courses out there to refresh and/or enhance your rider skills would be the two main reasons I think of.

[Mom]

If only that ACC rip off on my rego gave me a discount on these kinds of courses... NOW THERE IS AN IDEA NICK SMITH & CO!

So, if for example, I managed to get some funding for some lessons, you would be a starter? Probably still be a small cost involved, but much less than standard charges.

[Grant`]

I went and did the superbike school levels 1 and 2 and from that (yes I know its on a track)i learned so much about techniques on how to go around a corner. Things i either did sub consiciously and didn't realise or I did the hard way.

I never believe I was a fast rider, but I did believe I was safe and that in itself was a bit of a lie. I am a lot safer now after having done the above course and would recommend it to any and everyone to do.

don't really have any advanced rider courses up here in Whangarei I am aware of.

[James Deuce]

It intrigues me that Local Government takes a such positive role in Motorcycle Education while central Government tries to use the big sticks of increasing costs and penalties to moderate behaviour.

I used to belong to a bike club made up mainly of riding instructors and their partners. Andrew and Lynne were members, as was F5Dave. We used to have Gymkhanas held mainly on grass but sometimes in a car park, check club members riding (without being officious Nazis) and spend time helping each other out with maintenance and riding skills. The best thing we ever did was the great Steinlager Experiment. A gymkhana event ridden on old trail, trials and bucket bikes to see how your fine motor skills and cognitive powers decrease rapidly under even the smallest amount of alcoholic influence. One beer screws up your ability to ride over a see-saw made from a barrel and a plank. One.

There's a whole bunch of cultural issues around the training thing, not least of which is that the process of getting a license is seen as "The End". Once you have it you're up for anything. For those about to be confined to cars it's not such a big deal because hitting your letterbox at 20 km/hr just dents stuff. Hurts on a bike. Probably costs more too. People have mentioned the ego thing too. I'm starting to think that having ACC as a safety net has been a bad thing. You cause an accident for someone and they get hurt and the worst you get is dangerous causing injury and you might get disqualified for a month and get a $600 fine. People have completely accepted the accident theory of motor vehicle incidents. They're a mistake and no one is to blame. I could go on and on but what's the point? No one wants to learn that they're fallible, lacking skills (from people skills to actual riding skills) and most of all vulnerable.

There's no incentive to get training that specifically improves your ability to be a better road user, to be a better vehicle technician, to be a more skilled rider. I applaud the councils in the GWR. These training courses have been held repeatedly at no cost to the trainees for years now. At the times when I have a bike I always make a point of going to them, but I'm too friggin' stupid to book a yearly refresher that I pay for. She'll be right and the excuse of no money quickly overwhelms the desire to keep my mind and skills sharp, so I get lazy and complacent and get nailed by an ovine.

[Tricia1000]

Interesting thread. Will post a longer reply when I get to a pc. iPhone is very tedious when composing a long message.
I am happy to do training with any one and at any level. I might try the council again to see if they might sponsor some training, or even some of my contacts in ACC.

[The Singing Chef]

Iv'e found that NASS helps alot, we do the slow speed gyhmkanha courses, etc... I would also like to participate in a training course, especially if it's cheap. The hunger for knowledge is growing and it's fun to push yourself to new limits learning bike safety maneuvers.

[willytheekid]

I tried to get on this course Kenny - whilst still in my halo. I was very willing to do the half day of theory, and then watch from the side the practical. They responded and said "they can not accomodate Katie-Jane" and I was annoyed. Me, who crashed badly, who obviously needs more training, and is willing to do so before I am even back on the road, and they feel it is not necessary for me to attend, becuase I couldn't do the riding side of it. I will try again for the July course. But what more can I do? Stay off a bike for the next 6 months and forget alot of the theory I have learnt from the other 5 training courses I attended, because I am not using it and keeping it all familiar? Doesn't this mean I will be a bigger risk getting back on the road because I will have much further to go to get back to where I was pre-accident?.

The instructors made the correct choice sorry Katiepie.
To have you turn up just for the theory is a waste of there time and yours.(and not to mention the risk you pose to yourself and others while riding injuried!)
Im a HUGE fan of rider training and highly recommend them to everyone...but If your injured or unable to take part in the practical excerise it is truly a waste of time going as the theory is preparing you for the practical, getting you mentaly prepared to accept change and advice from a stranger, and to look at yourself, the thinking process and skills you use when when riding.
If you can't put the theory into practice and observe the change in habits or style of riding etc..how would you know if the advice and training is working for you? and who is going to observe and coach you into these safer riding & thinking practices.
Great attitude wanting to learn after what you have been through Katipie, but patience is lesson one & knowing your own limits is #2....once your fully healed and ready I don't see anything on this planet stopping you from attending and enjoying!
....I bet the instructors will LOVE your attitude and resilience just as much as we all do.
Just wish the Govt would fund these course's at all levels (learner,street & track)

PS: GREAT POST MOM!

[george formby]

It's dawned on moi, and I have shared this with the OP that your never to old to learn.
As the years tick by my annual mileage becomes less & I'm losing the "sharpness" I had when I rode big miles in all weathers. at times I feel my confidence teeter in a certain situation when I know that I am more than capable of dealing with it. Bit of an alarm bell for me.

I think gymkhana would be great fun in an ad hoc way for those who are interested to meet & greet & have some fun while honing or developing skills. I'm keen to see how this thread develops.

[buellbabe]

At the risk of repetition...track days are not training days.

Training days are specifically geared towards learning or improving and perfecting specific skills.
Such as basic slow manoevres, u-turns (no-one wants to f**k up a u-turn in the middle of no-where and suddenly be in the wrong place at the wrong time), emergency braking, counter steering, hazard avoidance etc...

If any of this sounds familiar its probably cos you have done a Karel Pavich ProRider course.

I highly recommend them. I have been riding for 26 years and I still learnt stuff from the 2 courses I did. I enjoyed the Puke day so much I did the advanced Manfeild day a month later!

I'm still waiting for ACC to get with the programme and give levy discounts to ALL riders who are proactive enough to do these training days.(yeah right) I think its something that the various Biker Rights groups should be lobbying hard for.