The German town which scrapped all traffic lights and road signs

[Toaster]

You have to love ze Germans ya?!

Sadly our quality of driving skill here would probably hinder it working here as well as it could or should.

At least you can't run a red or amber light at a roundabout.... but it does have its own rules:

1. Stay in your own lane and indicate on and off
2. Watch out for old people driving around it the wrong way
3. Watch out for Asians
4. Put down your cellphone and hold your doubledown burger in your teeth as you turn the wheel (and especially so when riding).

[scissorhands]

South east asian cities + kazillion scooters, tuk tuks and cars + only average education levels + respected (feared) police officers + next to no signage + little to no rules = a system which works and costs little to maintain with few ugly signs or painted lines on roads

Amongst all the chaos you then see a pious muslim woman pillion riding side saddle on a scooter and shes late for work with the rider weaving in and out of the chaos.

[awayatc]

Well certainly not in this country full of 'me' drivers who think they're shit-hot and/or don't have a clue...or care......

Germany has far stricter driver's licencing criterea for starters...
compulsory insurance...
hefty fines (and a system that doesn't let you get away with not paying)
Police have a lot of power to enforce.
They didn't suffer Helen,
and therefor had more natural selection happen prior to this experiment

[scumdog]

Germany has far stricter driver's licencing criterea for starters...
compulsory insurance...
hefty fines (and a system that doesn't let you get away with not paying)
Police have a lot of power to enforce.
They didn't suffer Helen,
and therefor had more natural selection happen prior to this experiment

All those that quote about the autobahn speed limits...blah-blah-blah conveniently forget about those little facts

[schrodingers cat]

Don't know if many of you have ever had a look at The Dog and Lemon guide (The book which rates various second hand cars)
The chap who writes it always includes quite a bit of editorial at the beginning of the edition with articles about road safety etc from around the world.

Somewhat unsurprisingly the message is more detiled than 'Don't speed or you'll die'

Anyhoo - a common theme seems to be that road users respond to their environment and set speed and attitudes accordingly - this in some ways explains the phenomenon of roads snails speeding up as soon as the road widens to at a passing lane.

I'm not sure which edition covered this town but I have read the article and it was really interesting.

Its worth picking a copy up and your library and having a read about this and many other studies

[Woodman]

It has only been 4 weeks into this experiment which is hardly enough time to gauge an accurate outcome. The new rules are probarbly at the forefront of all the local drivers minds at the moment so they are giving it the attention it deserves. All power to them but time will tell whether it works in the long term when the novelty wears off.

[p.dath]

So how to do handle the situation where there is excessive traffic for an intersection, particularly where one road is larger than another?

One of the things that traffic lights do is ensure fairness of use of the road - helping to make sure people can go where they need to.


I suspect this scheme will only work in places where there is not heavy congestion.

[p.dath]

South east asian cities + kazillion scooters, tuk tuks and cars + only average education levels + respected (feared) police officers + next to no signage + little to no rules = a system which works and costs little to maintain with few ugly signs or painted lines on roads

Don't those same cities have high fatality rates? Ditto for India.

[scumdog]

Don't those same cities have high fatality rates? Ditto for India.

200 dead on a long weekend in Malasia is the norm...

[Dadpole]

It has only been 4 weeks into this experiment which is hardly enough time to gauge an accurate outcome.

Has anyone checked the date of the original article?

[rustyrobot]

Has anyone checked the date of the original article?

Yeah I noticed that too - I had a pretty good look to try and find something more recent, but no luck. Even a google translate of the official website for the town (http://www.bohmte.de) only finds 2008 references. I suppose they are all either very happy with it, or they've all been taken out by tourists expecting stop-signs.

[scissorhands]

Don't those same cities have high fatality rates? Ditto for India.

Yes they do, but congestion is often ridiculous, and young males get sporty 125cc bikes with expansion chambers and think they are in a Bollywood movie. Then you have overcrowded buses with bald tyres driven by reckless teenagers.....(I have been on a few) Plus many undesirable aspects that contribute to the toll

My intention is to highlight the premise of putting responsibility on the individual, to drive well, rather than the state to guide them everywhere like cattle in yards. Or in NZ like trying to herd cats.

Like having a mother-in-law in the house telling what to do at every turn.

I'm sure a middle ground could easily be achieved in NZ, and be much like this German town.

Auckland City now has 'shared space' streets, usually one way. No kerbs or footpaths, all users share the one platform

http://www.aucklandcity.govt.nz/coun...haredspace.asp

What is shared space?

Shared space is about creating vibrant and attractive urban spaces that are people friendly.

One typical element of the design is the removal of kerbs and the traditional distinction between footpath and road. Single paving across the full width of the street allows pedestrians to move more easily in the space and provides more room for outdoor dining and other street activities and events.

How a shared space street is designed, may vary depending on an area's specific environmental and cultural needs. But the fundamental philosophy remains the same – an attractive street environment where pedestrians have priority while sharing the street with vehicle traffic.

[scissorhands]

Yeah I noticed that too - I had a pretty good look to try and find something more recent, but no luck. Even a google translate of the official website for the town (http://www.bohmte.de) only finds 2008 references. I suppose they are all either very happy with it, or they've all been taken out by tourists expecting stop-signs.

Its a social experiment too in reducing big brother at the intersection. Has a huge flow on effect regarding social attitudes.

Try googling 'rogue male' to get a meaning, impossible. The words/phrase has been totally co opted

[scumdog]

What is shared space?

Shared space is about creating vibrant and attractive urban spaces that are people friendly.

One typical element of the design is the removal of kerbs and the traditional distinction between footpath and road. Single paving across the full width of the street allows pedestrians to move more easily in the space and provides more room for outdoor dining and other street activities and events.

How a shared space street is designed, may vary depending on an area's specific environmental and cultural needs. But the fundamental philosophy remains the same – an attractive street environment where pedestrians have priority while sharing the street with vehicle traffic.

Remember, this IS New Zealand, the land of the 'me' drivers...

[awayatc]

200 dead on a long weekend in Malasia is the norm...

200?

population seems to recover pretty rapidly.........