Damper rod forks, emulators, intminators and progressive springs

[hayd3n]

Yes, improvement is a term of relativity! And to quote Paul Thede ''the best you've ridden is the best you know''. For many I guess ''near enough is good enough'' but for many more its a whole world out there of what massive improvements can in fact be made. Concedingly yes it does cost money
I look at many ''cheap and cheerful'' scooters traveling along the road with their ridiculous 10 inch or so wheels and just shake my head at their terrible ride quality and capability of throwing their ride on his / her head over the patchwork quilt of seal repairs and manhole installations by many councils

very true and most bikes ive ridden are pretty crap in the suspension department
spending $1000 on my $3000 bike it still out of my picture :< but if i ever do you will be the first to know!!!!

[riffer]

Good stuff indeed Robert.

Tell me, to what extent are the limitations of today's suspension components the effect of beancounters trying to get the bike cost down to an acceptable level for the marketers, or due to the fear of litigation causing a more "generic" or "safe for the masses" system?

What I don't get is that the technology seems to be known to many, but the fork manufacturers are slow to introduce it, perhaps with the exception of the big piston stuff.

Why do YOU think the mainstream manufacturers are sticking with less than ideal technology?

[hayd3n]

or should i get somthing like this?
http://www.moto-racing.co.uk/ccp51/c...s&catstr=HOME:

[Pussy]

or should i get somthing like this?

Nah man... graft on a hydrolastic unit from an Austin 1100.....

[Robert Taylor]

Good stuff indeed Robert.

Tell me, to what extent are the limitations of today's suspension components the effect of beancounters trying to get the bike cost down to an acceptable level for the marketers, or due to the fear of litigation causing a more "generic" or "safe for the masses" system?

What I don't get is that the technology seems to be known to many, but the fork manufacturers are slow to introduce it, perhaps with the exception of the big piston stuff.

Why do YOU think the mainstream manufacturers are sticking with less than ideal technology?

The cost is a good deal of everything. That also includes BPF forks and thats a subject in itself as they fall way short of the mark of what they could have been, without any extra cost.

[Robert Taylor]

Nah man... graft on a hydrolastic unit from an Austin 1100.....

Incorrect John, ''hydrospastic'' with cadillac emulating rebound aftercycles. Also successfully applied in Austin and Morris landcrabs. There are a few things that I dont miss from the 70s.

[Robert Taylor]

or should i get somthing like this?
http://www.moto-racing.co.uk/ccp51/c...s&catstr=HOME:

Yes but you can get them right here in NZ and enjoy local backup. For instance if the spring rate you choose turns out in practice to be not quite ideal for you we exchange at no further cost excepting courier recovery fees. Spring rate calculators over the net are a guideline only and cannot take into account myriad other factors including disposition of load and ''rider feel preference''.
Where there are listings our first port of call are Ohlins springs, a major reason being that the length is a match for the original preload spacers or they supply preload spacers. All the work is done, and they are a little cheaper as well.

[hayd3n]

Yes but you can get them right here in NZ and enjoy local backup. For instance if the spring rate you choose turns out in practice to be not quite ideal for you we exchange at no further cost excepting courier recovery fees. Spring rate calculators over the net are a guideline only and cannot take into account myriad other factors including disposition of load and ''rider feel preference''.
Where there are listings our first port of call are Ohlins springs, a major reason being that the length is a match for the original preload spacers or they supply preload spacers. All the work is done, and they are a little cheaper as well.

so for sub 250 i can get ohlins?

[AllanB]

A interesting note re the RaceTech link above and the comment re Hagon. You may have been surprised at what could have been supplied for similar coin to your Hagons. I was.

As a recent customer of Roberts fork springs I join the CKT congregation as a convert of his local experience. I'd picked out the spring rate based on the on-line calculator and he recommended going down one (lighter). Plus he could supply Ohlins units cheaper (hey - everyone loves gold ).

Turns out the spring rate is perfect and if I'd gone by the on-line calculator in the above link my front end ride would be less compliant.


I did discover one negative to improving the front end - the short comings of the rear are now extremely apparent Nothing a email could not fit!

[Robert Taylor]

so for sub 250 i can get ohlins?

Yes, 10 cents change!

[hayd3n]

Yes, 10 cents change!

ill start saving !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Motig]

So a progressive spring would not be an improvement on the stock spring for an old bandit? I ask this as anything more expensive couldn't be justified with my budget/riding style. (and especially to the boss)

[F5 Dave]

The cost is a good deal of everything. That also includes BPF forks and thats a subject in itself as they fall way short of the mark of what they could have been, without any extra cost.

Not wanting to get off topic, but having only seen them in pics (an article you did for BRM I think) I was surprised that the ports were so small on such a big piston. I mean I can see on a small piston you need complex machining to increase the size, but on those big mothers there appeared room to at least improve the issue with a bigger drill bit.

But why? Does Paul pay them a retainer to cripple themselves so he still has a market?
Its a conspiracy?

[bogan]

Interesting stuff!

If I've understood it correctly (reading it involved a lot of googling part names so I'm not sure on this point) the first/most important thing to sort is the spring rates? Are sag checks a decent indicator of how suitable the current spring rates are?

And is rear suspension a different story with regards to the progressive spring issue, as most linkages cause both progressive spring and damping rates right?

edit: also, any more news/info on semi/active suspension systems?

[vifferman]

As a recent customer of Roberts fork springs I join the CKT congregation as a convert of his local experience. I'd picked out the spring rate based on the on-line calculator and he recommended going down one (lighter). Plus he could supply Ohlins units cheaper (hey - everyone loves gold ).

Turns out the spring rate is perfect and if I'd gone by the on-line calculator in the above link my front end ride would be less compliant.

I too bought springs (Sonic) online, and despite being sceptical of their spring rate calculator and going one rate lighter, I still ended up with a front end that was OK over 100 km/h or under 70, had very precise steering, but on backroads at 70-90 was VERY tiring to ride, even after CKT's ministrations to the other parts (Racetech bits, and expensive baby-lesbian-afghani-fur-seal-penguin-whale oil). I sent them back to CKT and Robert swapped the Sonics for some Ohlins of a lower rate, tweaked the damping to suit, and le voila! (A small, mispelled musical instrument).