VMCC Round 2 -

[White trash]

So F1 fields the biggest single class?

That fucks your argument right up Spud.

[Billy]

So F1 fields the biggest single class?

That fucks your argument right up Spud.

Mmmm!And it might of just got worse for the streetstock feild as well,My bike seized on the Dyno about an hour ago!!!!

[CHOPPA]

So F1 fields the biggest single class?

That fucks your argument right up Spud.

Thats because half the entrys are F2 bikes that are cross entering. Sorta proves Spud right....

[White trash]

Mmmm!And it might of just got worse for the streetstock feild as well,My bike seized on the Dyno about an hour ago!!!!

Fucken Dyno?!?!?! I'm checking the rool book u cheeting coont!!! No Dyno's allowed mate.

[Billy]

Fucken Dyno?!?!?! I'm checking the rool book u cheeting coont!!! No Dyno's allowed mate.

Read it front to back,Doesnt mention dyno's anywhere,I wish it fucken did though,Then my bike wouldnt be fucked LOL

[White trash]

Read it front to back,Doesnt mention dyno's anywhere,

Egg zackery! Not mentioned, can't use it. End of story.

I'll await the protests against that and your terrible 80's leathers.....

[Billy]

Egg zackery! Not mentioned, can't use it. End of story.

I'll await the protests against that and your terrible 80's leathers.....

"80s"Leathers!!Dont make me drag out some of the ones from the 70s,Especially the early 70s ones LOL

[RobGassit]

Egg zackery! Not mentioned, can't use it. End of story.

I'll await the protests against that and your terrible 80's leathers.....

Jeez! Trash has a point you know. Budda said if it aint mentioned,,you can't touch it.
Come to think of it, there's no mention of Beer and Spirits either, so I'll be givin up the wicked fluid.
It must mention cocks somewhere though, coz there's a shit load of touchin them goin on here so it must be legal.

[Str8 Jacket]

Wanna borrow my FXR bucket-commuter Billy? I'll take off the number plate....

[SWERVE]

Jeez! Trash has a point you know. Budda said if it aint mentioned,,you can't touch it.
Come to think of it, there's no mention of Beer and Spirits either, so I'll be givin up the wicked fluid.
It must mention cocks somewhere though, coz there's a shit load of touchin them goin on here so it must be legal.

Im sure it was a typing error from Billy....dyno.....he meant dynamo... running one off the bike to power the work shop lights.
Easy mistake and automatically you guys start quoting the rulebook
Shame on you

[Billy]

Im sure it was a typing error from Billy....dyno.....he meant dynamo... running one off the bike to power the work shop lights.
Easy mistake and automatically you guys start quoting the rulebook
Shame on you

Absolutely not Merv,Thr RG doesnt have enough power to run a dynamo fast enough to make the lights go,

As stated by Budda,If its not mentioned,You cant touch it and I didnt,Just dropped the bike off at the workshop doorway and the next thing I get a call from them saying it seized on the dyno,Fucked if I know how it got on there !!!!

[slowpoke]

Awe c'mon, start at the top

Also I wouldn't be so sure that things you say on here won't make a difference, as long as the discussion is polite I for one am prepared to be persuaded, and if we keep it going others may be persuaded as well, or contribute some new idea (or indicate support for an idea)

Polite? Aaaah bugger! Seriously, I apologise as I know I've come across as too...er, strident, especially in reponse to your always gentlemanly responses. Frustration is no excuse, and while I would stand to benefit from any changes, I'm only a very part timer so I'm much more interested in the direction/future of the sport overall. I'd love to be stuck out at work reading race reports and poring over Mylaps for info on the club superbike battle between say Sam Love, Glen Skachill and Choppa, and know that the sport is going somewhere in the right direction.

I guess it is hard not to come across as defensive when trying to explain the reasons for how/why some decisions are made.

Of course MY opinions/ideas I don't believe are indefensible

As for the club membership fees I'm with you - in the scheme of things that's a pittance compared to the cost of running a race bike, but not everyone that is a club member races and a lot of those that do race have much tighter budgets ( which may be one of the reasons that old 400's are so popular )

Maybe associate and full memberships? It's an easy one to sort and I doubt many people would argue it's not still value for money.

Don't get me started on the merits of deliberately choosing an ancient 400 so you can enter 2 or 3 classes. It's just another reason to level up the racing landscape and may help people stay in the sport longer if they are encouraged to race more reliable machinery.

I have raced at SOT where "bracket" races are the norm and it worked bloody well I thought and lobbied for that format.
Of course the tradition is for race classes to be dictated by engine capacity, and once upon a time that was the only criteria. Over the hundred or so years that people have raced bikes however things have got a LOT more complicated, rules have been created, dropped, bent and broken for all sorts of reasons that include pride, profit, and sheer spitefulness.

I'd like to think the current Vic Club ones support the MNZ aims of making motorcycle racing Safe, Fun and Fair.

Yes and no. Within the classes racing is pretty fair, but the way F1 has been sidelined is not. When Choppa is sitting on the grid having paid his full entry fee next to Glen having paid a fraction of that to sit on the same grid it's not fair. When some riders are getting 2 or 3 times the racing that others are it's not fair.

(edited )

So if anybody is still reading this after wading through all of that:

• How can Vic Club make the Winter Series more attractive to Superbike racers ?
  
  Have a more equitable distribution of track time.
  
  
• Should Vic Club even TRY to do the above ?
  
  They have everything to gain and nothing to lose. The GFC won't be around forever and sooner or later we'll be back to overflowing F2 grids, with paltry numbers of genuine F1 bikes, so a better distribution of riders through all classes works for everyone. Better competition across the board improves the show for spectators and sponsors. More competition also flows on to more nationals capable entrants which means a better NZSBK show, which means more coverage, which means more sponsors, and more people interested in bike racing who join the club etc etc. It's a long journey but small steps add up over time.
  
  
• How much does cost play in Superbike racers decision to do the series or not ?
  
  I'm sure there is a cost element involved in many peoples decisions, but there are also many folks who could afford to run a superbike, and would be interested in doing so without the track time deterrent.
  
  
• If cost is a big factor - where is the cost and how can the Club help reduce that ?
  
  My opinion is that the cost factor is based on $$$/lap. F1 folks invest a lot of money for few laps. Increase the laps and all of a sudden it looks like much better value.
  
  
• If cost is not a factor what are the drivers for those that DO enter ?
  
  Racing a superbike is just an awesome experience and a huge challenge. So the driver is that the few laps F1 punters get racing is better than nothing. I'm lucky in that when I'm home weekday test/track days aren't a problem and are a more attractive option whereas many "normal" jobs don't allow that so riders simply take whatever they can get.
  

• Practice/setup for the nats ?
  
  I think Choppa was the only superbike full Nat's entrant regularly competing last year, so no. More laps may well change that though.
  
  
• Just doing skids ?
  
  Pretty much, as is the case for most entrants in most classes.
  
• Some other reason ?

• If cost is not a factor what stops people doing the series ?

• Too cold ?
  
  After last season and the start of this one crap weather/racing conditions probably plays a part but no more than any other class.
  
  
• Don't want to practice "going slow" ?
  
  Do you mean with the cold conditions? This may apply to guys like Craig Shirriffs and Choppa but realistically any practice is better than no practice for most of us. Choppa's great performance last season probably disproves this somewhat too.
  
  
• Not enough laps ?
  
  The biggest influence, in my opinion. I'm sorta cash comfortable but time bankrupt so while I can kinda afford to race it just doesn't make sense to blow a whole day hanging around for what is barely more than one session at a test day. Linked to this is the measely 4 lap qualifying which is also pretty ordinary and I can see disastrous results for some people trying to rush themselves up to race speed. It's one thing getting your head around a 60hp Pro-twin (for example), whereas it's a lil' bit different on a 180hp 1000, yet the cross entering Pro-twin gets 2 qualifying sessions before racing and the 1000 only gets one.
  
  
• Not enough competition ?
  
  This would have to influence some of the National level riders. A more competitive F1 environment may well drag those guys out for a play a lil' earlier than just the last Winter Series round or guys like Hayden Fitzgerald and Nick Cole might start to see it as a good way to bridge the slight gap between themselves and the very top echelon. It may also play a role in the decision making of some F2 pilots who are well capable of stepping up but would rather hone their skills in F2.
  
  
• Too much competition - don't want to get beaten by a 600 ? ( not me obviously )

Nah, can't see it. I've had some of the most fun ever racing against Mark Bennett, Darren Humphries and co on their pesky lil' 600's.

Note, I don't see why a different class/race strategy has to have much of an impact on race time for most if not all other classes. A race day runs from 9:00am to 4:30pm at Manfeild, so even allowing for lunch should still mean at least an hour's track time for each of 6 classes with time for stoppages. No-one can complain about that and it wouldn't be too hard to sort a reasonable class/grade structure.

A side benefit of say A, B, C grades (with races within races?) would be to give some of the current mid-packers something tangible to race for, be it a race podium or the kudos of moving up or maintaining a grade.

[scracha]

I don't believe that the Vic Club discourages F1 bikes - we actually spent a considerable amount of time and discussion on trying to come up with ways of equalizing track time including things like running F1 and F2 together, having "bracket races" where bikes where lumped together by lap times. We eventually

Seriously Kev, if it was discussed then what were the reason(s) for not running F1 and F2 together (as was suggested by many people)? 4 or 5 "premier" races would have kept everybody happy.

[wharfy]

Seriously Kev, if it was discussed then what were the reason(s) for not running F1 and F2 together (as was suggested by many people)? 4 or 5 "premier" races would have kept everybody happy.

There were a couple of things:

The possibility of the F2 grid being oversubscribed ( which seems pretty unlikely this year but in previous years it has happed and on occasion 2 or 3 F2 riders didn't qualify and ended up in clubmans ) so adding 10 - 15 F1 bikes would have made that much more likely.
With cross entering if the F1 grid is oversubscribed F1 bikes get priority.
So with ALL the F1 & F2 bikes mixed ALL the time the likelihood of one or two people NEVER getting a race was a possibility - probably F2 bikes and on current form I'd be one of them !

Of course at the time the decision was made we had no clue that this year the entries would be so dismal.

Another was that cross entering is an "option" for for F2 bikes so only those that want to race with the big boys do it. There was the feeling that some F2 riders might not like being forced to race against superbikes (even though points would be separate they would still be blatting past on the straights)

Traditionally classes have been separated by capacity and usually the class is based on the maximum capacity allowed or "open" very few have a minimum, so if you run an open class bike you were expected to take on all comers in the open class and couldn't expect to run in classes for smaller engines.

So it seemed there were enough reasons NOT to change the format for enough people the vote for the "status quo" won.


Sadly we will never keep "everyone happy"

It will be interesting to see how the F2 / BEARS class works out, if none of the F2 riders object there may be a case for letting the 4 F1 bikes that aren't BEARS bikes join in further down the track (as it were) but of course that's not MY call

ps what are you doing up at 03:45 ? (I've been working - our end of the "Aeronautical Fixed Telecommunication Network" fell over )

[suzuki21]

Mmmm!And it might of just got worse for the streetstock feild as well,My bike seized on the Dyno about an hour ago!!!!

Tis normal for a standard motor to seize aye Billy!