Hyosung 250 Cup

[SWERVE]

Yerr,Its always been my biggest bone of contention surrounding "Production" racing rules,That if you have a list of cans and cants it leaves a whole raft of maybes,However by stating in the rules "if its not mentioned,You cant touch it"Clears that up,Doesnt it ???

I mean,You have to be reasonably stupid to not understand that,Either that or ignorant!!

Its easy enough to email the roadrace commission chairman at the correct email address if your unsure of any issues you confront,Kiwibiker is not that address!Anybody posting that sort of request on this site is most probably,As I stated last night,Fishing for the right answer to justify their actions!!!

Remember,Ignorance or failing to ask the right people is not an excuse at the track!!

I will agree to differ on the first note Billy. I see you point about "not listed/cant touch" but personally would like specific "cans/cant,s & exactly what you cans".

I actually emailed the road race commision & pm,d buddha about the subject in my first post........... didnt get a relpy or notification on either count............. so thought i would try here...........oh look i got a reply Anyway the broader range of opinions on here is much better and some good ideas too. Still a free country last time i checked.

Its a shame that we dont all live closer ....its friday night and we could have a lively discussion over a few pints down the pub..... and put a few "world issues to rites" at the same time.
Would probebly be a good night!!!!!!! good ol fashioned heated debate involving alcohol....... night was going well until in walked Mr Jones and spilt budda,s pint hold on to your glasses gents.........its gonna get ugly
Evening Pete

[Billy]

I'm in full support of Racey Rider. A good person / rider who made an effort to support a class and play by the rules. For this he's rewarded by MNZ changing the rules in the middle of a championship without consultation with riders. He now has a set of tyres only good for growing geraniums in. Is that fair?
Don't have MNZ rules about changing rules? Aren't rule changes an annual affair, after consultation/feedback? And they can't use the excuse it's a safety matter. Taking away the RIGHT of the rider fit race wet tyres for wet racing (and it really does piss down at Manfeild and Hampton Downs! (often!) is surely taking safety the wrong direction. It's only a few years ago Alan Cressey gave legal advice to MNZ that they cannot prevent Streetstock riders the opportunity to fit wets as every other class (and every other motorsport on sealed surfaces) is allowed them.
Isn't this case of MNZ breaking rule making rules themselves?

Sorry Pete,

Gotta disagree with you on this one,The issue surrounding Alex's tyres came up in the middle of the Actrix series last year and was included in the new Prolite rules for this past season,Not half way through the Championship series as you've stated above and Alex knew about it as early as June last year!!

Also,I'm confused regarding your statement on wet weather tyres,Are you now suggesting wets should be allowed for streetstock?Because in your petition you organised and I signed at Ruapuna this year,The one thing we agreed on was "NO WETS",Also I was of the impression earlier when the issue of running slicks on the SS bikes in the wet arose. That the reasoning was to make it more affordable for the young ones and parents by not having to run with a spare pair of wheels and discs with wets fitted and that they were atleast as safe as treaded tyres were on a wet track,Are you suggesting that SS bikes should be allowed wets now???If so then why not allow tyre warmers as well as they enhance the life of the tyres by reducing the amount of heat cycles per day??

[Kickaha]

Also I was of the impression earlier when the issue of running slicks on the SS bikes in the wet arose. That the reasoning was to make it more affordable for the young ones and parents by not having to run with a spare pair of wheels and discs with wets fitted and that they were atleast as safe as treaded tyres were on a wet track

There was no "Issue" with running slicks on SS150 until MNZ created one, they seemed to be under the mistaken impression that if you run a slick in the wet you'll fall off before you get out of pit lane

[Billy]

There was no "Issue" with running slicks on SS150 until MNZ created one, they seemed to be under the mistaken impression that if you run a slick in the wet you'll fall off before you get out of pit lane

I wasn't suggesting there was,It was just a figure of speech and it wasn't ALL of MNZ that created the issue either!Just the CEO,You can thank Jim Tuckerman for getting rid of him

[RobGassit]

[oyster]

Wrong Billy. The Pro lite rules changed in the middle of the night at the end of Jan or early Feb. Cos I printed off the rules from the site during the championship in Jan
and there they were allowed any DOT tyres. At the same time they changed the class from a non championship class to championship class as well.
I've never supported Streetstock having wets. I opposed it when MNZ put it in(under legal advice from lawyer Alan Cressey). He said they must include them to prevent potential worst case action from police/coroner should a fatality occur where someone was racing in the rain without the choice of specialist wet tyres as every other class including other motorsports have. In my post I'm only quoting a bit of history, not my opinion. In the poll I conducted (you refer to) I listed yes/no to wets. Most said no, but some said yes and I faithfully recorded that. I was my duty to be accurate, not taint it with my opinion. When the Pro Lite rules were formulated many years ago, I also opposed wets for this class as well. The reason was to keep costs down, but I must admit that experience of the skinny rimmed Streetstock and buckets using road tread or none at all (slick) in the wet successfully might not translate the same into Pro Lite with wide rims and very heavy chassis.

[Billy]

Wrong Billy. The Pro lite rules changed in the middle of the night at the end of Jan or early Feb. Cos I printed off the rules from the site during the championship in Jan
and there they were allowed any DOT tyres. At the same time they changed the class from a non championship class to championship class as well.

Wrong again Pete,The revised Prolite rules were on the MNZ website by mid January after a long and drawn out discussion between the board and commission over the wording of said rules,Clarification of the specialist wet tyres was introduced in the middle of last year at the request of myself and Russell Forrest,Mid January is not the middle of the season and they were NOT allowed "any" dot or e marked tyres,Also the class was introduced as a Championship class in 2008 under the heading"Production Light" but was only recognised as a class following round 1 this year where there were a minimum of 6 machines on the grid

[Racey Rider]

.... The issue surrounding Alex's tyres came up in the middle of the Actrix series last year and was included in the new Prolite rules for this past season,Not half way through the Championship series as you've stated above and Alex knew about it as early as June last year!!

The facts as I recall them,
The first time I had the DoT wets on the Hyosung was the 18/19th Sept 2010.
Vic round 5. Was going to be the two day meeting, but we all got washed out with that storm. No racing.
Then at round 6 I used them for Qualifying and race one, before changing to 'drys'.
(write up on KB).

I then had them on hand for the first round of the Pacific Sumer series (Nov 2010).
It was only at this round that You mentioned Billy, that the rules were going to be changed to exclude Dot approved 'wets'. That's the first I knew of it.
You then sent me the Proposed changes by email on the 17/12/2010.

I know this new rule was up on the MNZ website before round 2 of the summer series (Jan 16th). But figured it didn't apply to the summer series as that series had started before the rule change was on MNZ site. As it happened I didn't have to test that theory, as the remaining PMCC rounds were dry.

Now we must remember - we're all working towards the same goal here Sorting a class for the young/newbies (of any age)/financially challenged.
I'm not a beer buyer, but tell me what chocolate bar you fancy and I'll share a couple with ya next weekend!

[Billy]

The facts as I recall them,
The first time I had the DoT wets on the Hyosung was the 18/19th Sept 2010.
Vic round 5. Was going to be the two day meeting, but we all got washed out with that storm. No racing.
Then at round 6 I used them for Qualifying and race one, before changing to 'drys'.
(write up on KB).

I then had them on hand for the first round of the Pacific Sumer series (Nov 2010).
It was only at this round that You mentioned Billy, that the rules were going to be changed to exclude Dot approved 'wets'. That's the first I knew of it.
You then sent me the Proposed changes by email on the 17/12/2010.

I know this new rule was up on the MNZ website before round 2 of the summer series (Jan 16th). But figured it didn't apply to the summer series as that series had started before the rule change was on MNZ site. As it happened I didn't have to test that theory, as the remaining PMCC rounds were dry.

Now we must remember - we're all working towards the same goal here Sorting a class for the young/newbies (of any age)/financially challenged.
I'm not a beer buyer, but tell me what chocolate bar you fancy and I'll share a couple with ya next weekend!

Good skills Alex,I stand corrected as to which round you turned up with the wets,I was relying on memory as I had lost a lot of the relevant information when my computer crashed earlier in the year,All I knew was it was during the winter series and not the Nationals when the issue arose and was dealt with.

What!You dont drink beer?????

[budda]

The facts as I recall them,
The first time I had the DoT wets on the Hyosung was the 18/19th Sept 2010.
Vic round 5. Was going to be the two day meeting, but we all got washed out with that storm. No racing.
Then at round 6 I used them for Qualifying and race one, before changing to 'drys'.
(write up on KB).

I then had them on hand for the first round of the Pacific Sumer series (Nov 2010).
It was only at this round that You mentioned Billy, that the rules were going to be changed to exclude Dot approved 'wets'. That's the first I knew of it.
You then sent me the Proposed changes by email on the 17/12/2010.

I know this new rule was up on the MNZ website before round 2 of the summer series (Jan 16th). But figured it didn't apply to the summer series as that series had started before the rule change was on MNZ site. As it happened I didn't have to test that theory, as the remaining PMCC rounds were dry.

Now we must remember - we're all working towards the same goal here Sorting a class for the young/newbies (of any age)/financially challenged.
I'm not a beer buyer, but tell me what chocolate bar you fancy and I'll share a couple with ya next weekend!

Well done Alex, and thanks for your candid honesty. Your facts as presented tell the story nicely - important to understand that the "change" was in answer to a valid question from a number of Competitors ( not just Billy and Russell ) to clarify the situation for the future. The clarification was made to avoid the possibility of protests etc ; funny that stating what is and isnt allowed, in an effort to simplify things for all concerned, is railed against by those who want more transparency and "tick box" type rules - just proves theres no pleasing some folks

Thanks again for being up front and please, give that old coot a chocolate enema - he needs to put on at least 25kg to make minimum weight !

[Billy]

Well done Alex, and thanks for your candid honesty. Your facts as presented tell the story nicely - important to understand that the "change" was in answer to a valid question from a number of Competitors ( not just Billy and Russell ) to clarify the situation for the future. The clarification was made to avoid the possibility of protests etc ; funny that stating what is and isnt allowed, in an effort to simplify things for all concerned, is railed against by those who want more transparency and "tick box" type rules - just proves theres no pleasing some folks

Thanks again for being up front and please, give that old coot a chocolate enema - he needs to put on at least 25kg to make minimum weight !

Theres a mnimum weight rule now????Lend me some Mr round bwahahahahaha!!!

[RobGassit]

"funny that stating what is and isnt allowed, in an effort to simplify things for all concerned, is railed against by those who want more transparency and "tick box" type rules - just proves theres no pleasing some folks"

Not as funny as seeking clarification on a rule and being treated like a phaarkin idiot.

" Tailoring " Give me a break. I've got a dozen photos of "Tailoring" from the Nationals that range from electronics to frame modifications. All sailed through scrutineering.

[Kickaha]

" Tailoring " Give me a break. I've got a dozen photos of "Tailoring" from the Nationals that range from electronics to frame modifications. All sailed through scrutineering.

Scrutineering is concerned with safety not eligibility

[Buddha#81:Me]

" Tailoring " Give me a break. I've got a dozen photos of "Tailoring" from the Nationals that range from electronics to frame modifications. All sailed through scrutineering.

Post them up......make sure the full bikes are in shot so we can see who the cheats are?

[jellywrestler]

he needs to put on at least 25kg to make minimum weight !

hey don't do that, he's the only one road racing that Johnny Hepburn can sell his old leathers to!