VMCC 2012 POSITIVE Suggestion Box.

[wharfy]

But... but... but... then those that are able to cross over from F2 to F1 will have their tracktime curtailed...imagine the howls.
While GW sits quietly in the corner on his ancient Fizzer...smirking to himself.

Well F2 wouldn't loose anything they just have to share their races with the big boys and get to share the big boys races. - Unless the combined grid was oversubscribed !!
I for one would not be happy about being pushed out into clubmans (and I'd be a prime candidate !).

Then there would have to be equal track time for clubmans as well so double the clubmans races as they can't cross enter into any other class ?

In theory if you had the right pre-89 bike you could do pre-89 F3, F2, F1 & BEARS !!

I'm sure GW wouldn't smirk

So would EVERYONE get equal track time would with bracket races ?

we would need 3 or 4 time "brackets"
Based on mylaps "fastest times in races" for round 1 the spilts would be
under 1:17 A
1:17 - 1:24 B
1:24 -1:31 C
Over 1:31 D

Obviously we would need a couple of decent "qualifying" sessions based on engine capacity to separate the classes (numbers on the track) and that would be you bracket on the day.

So then people like me who would be on the cusp of A or B would have to decide weather we wanted to go hard out in qualifying so we could be last in A bracket or not try quite so hard and have a chance of a podium in B bracket ?
Normally my qualifying times are a couple of seconds slower than my race times so the above scenario may turn up every round no matter how hard I tried to get into the A bracket and of course the cut of time would have to be calculated each round to even up the grid numbers. So while it SOUNDS simple it would open a whole NEW can worms.
I have raced under this system at SOT and it was great - But it wasn't a series it was a one off BEARS event.

How many of the people that strive to be the VMCC winter series SuperSport Champion would strive to be 4th equal in the VMCC A bracket Championship ?
Would the VMCC pro-twin Champion want to end up 18th ?

OK so we separate out the classes for the points - The Pro-twin 3rd place series winner might never have raced in the same race as the pro-twin champion ?
I'm sure if we analyze the results we would find that a possibility in more than one class.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work - just highlighting a few of the issues that need to be considered.

To get the F1 guys more track time they could maybe run run with F2 - but not cross enter (cause you just can't run a thou in a 600 competition).
Currently any F2 cross entry into F1 will have to bow out if they are holding out and F1 bike so the same would apply to F1 running with F2 - and that scenario is MUCH more likely to happen.

If we did no cross entries at all how many 600 riders would not bother coming to our events ?

My brain cell is hurting now

[Tony.OK]

Well F2 wouldn't loose anything they just have to share their races with the big boys and get to share the big boys races. - Unless the combined grid was oversubscribed !!
I for one would not be happy about being pushed out into clubmans (and I'd be a prime candidate !).

Then there would have to be equal track time for clubmans as well so double the clubmans races as they can't cross enter into any other class ?

In theory if you had the right pre-89 bike you could do pre-89 F3, F2, F1 & BEARS !!

I'm sure GW wouldn't smirk

So would EVERYONE get equal track time would with bracket races ?

we would need 3 or 4 time "brackets"
Based on mylaps "fastest times in races" for round 1 the spilts would be
under 1:17 A
1:17 - 1:24 B
1:24 -1:31 C
Over 1:31 D

Obviously we would need a couple of decent "qualifying" sessions based on engine capacity to separate the classes (numbers on the track) and that would be you bracket on the day.

So then people like me who would be on the cusp of A or B would have to decide weather we wanted to go hard out in qualifying so we could be last in A bracket or not try quite so hard and have a chance of a podium in B bracket ?
Normally my qualifying times are a couple of seconds slower than my race times so the above scenario may turn up every round no matter how hard I tried to get into the A bracket and of course the cut of time would have to be calculated each round to even up the grid numbers. So while it SOUNDS simple it would open a whole NEW can worms.
I have raced under this system at SOT and it was great - But it wasn't a series it was a one off BEARS event.

How many of the people that strive to be the VMCC winter series SuperSport Champion would strive to be 4th equal in the VMCC A bracket Championship ?
Would the VMCC pro-twin Champion want to end up 18th ?

OK so we separate out the classes for the points - The Pro-twin 3rd place series winner might never have raced in the same race as the pro-twin champion ?
I'm sure if we analyze the results we would find that a possibility in more than one class.

I'm not saying it wouldn't work - just highlighting a few of the issues that need to be considered.

To get the F1 guys more track time they could maybe run run with F2 - but not cross enter (cause you just can't run a thou in a 600 competition).
Currently any F2 cross entry into F1 will have to bow out if they are holding out and F1 bike so the same would apply to F1 running with F2 - and that scenario is MUCH more likely to happen.

If we did no cross entries at all how many 600 riders would not bother coming to our events ?

My brain cell is hurting now

The other side of the question could be.............
How many extra riders would turn up to have longer races with a full grid to battle amongst?

If the classes were combined and disregarding cross entering, do you really think people would stay away even though across the board more track time is had?

And if laptimes weren't quick enough for a certain class, would the rider worry if they got bumped down but had the same tracktime? It is racing after all and a new goal/laptime may have to be a new target for someone to get further up. (please don't take that the wrong way, am generalizing)

[MSTRS:Me]

I think there has been some merging of classes in the last year or three? (merging, as in running together in the same race, but gaining points applicable to their class)
I must admit that the new class titles are confusing. F1, Motards, ProTwins, Open Twins, SuperLight, StreetStocks, SuperSport, Posties (Pre-89, Pre-82, Pre-?) .... and with many being eligible and cross-entering 2+ classes, us poor bodies on the ground don't really know whos' who. To me, it seems easier/better to call them Fwhatever.

Combine whatever classes that (potentially) can run similar times, and disallow cross-entering - that would give everyone maximum tracktime, probably allow 4 races each, and level the field so no-one gets more racing than anyone else.
Could that work?

Although, calling up the next class/es would be a mouthful...

[Kickaha]

If you mean combine F1 & f2 ...thats what we do at MCC works well for us.

Works very well to, don't see to many MCC members on her bitching about the amount of track time they miss out on

Are you serious? Should bucket races be the premier class at motogp then?

They probably provide better racing and a bigger grid for a start

I see the premier class as the one that has the most entries and the best racing, nothing to do with the size or speed of the bike or how much money gets spent on it

Everyone seems to be in agreement that f1 and f2 should be combined and scored seperate. This reduces the program by one race so that 4 sessions. Thats a lot of time to share amongst the classes

Exactly the way MCC do it and have done it for a season or two

Senior class 1000cc and 600cc combined
Junior class F3/125gp/Pro twin combined

[scracha]

Grid = 35 bikes (ish).

F1/F2 Combined. Separate points for F1 and F2. If > 35 bikes then fastest 18 F1 bikes then fastest 17 F2 bikes. If <35 bikes then fastest F3/pro twin/posties cross entries get on the grid. If > 45 bikes then split into (A) and (B) grade.

F3/Pro Twin/125. If < 35 bikes then priority to F1/F2 bikes who haven't qualified (but they can't get points) over other cross-entries. If > 35 bikes then fastest 15 F3 bikes, then fastest 14 Pro Twin bikes. then fastest 6 125 bikes.
If > 45 bikes then split into (A) and (B) grade

Bears. Similar to above. Overspill the F1/F2/F3/Pro Twin/125 who haven't qualified. Again, they can't score points.

Posties As above but also overspill from bears.

Streetstock. As above but only overspill from posties jr, 125 or <60bhp bears bikes due to speed differential.

Clubmans. DROP IT. Adopt earlier suggestion for new riders.

Clubmans...I'm not sure of the point of this class any-more and ditching it would give far more track-time for everyone. Give "clubmans" racers a bright green bib or summit and allocate them a class based on their practise time bracket. If that means wobbly ridden R1's in F3 then so be it. If they're clearly not safe/competent then send em off to do more track-days.

Very little chance of riders going home without a ride as theoretical max of 20 non qualifying bikes to allocate via F3, Bears and Posties .

If there's time at the end of a meeting, extra races should be allocated by class with largest number of qualifying bikes unless this causes race order issues (i.e. back to back). e.g. If there's 30 streetstock bikes and 27 F1/F2, then the first extra race should be streetstock.

[codgyoleracer]

Wow, theres some pretty far reaching ideas in the above.
"Club racing" as the name suggests - need not be the same set up or follow the NZ nationals format.
It should be an opportunity for the organizing club to hold events that its club members want to participate in, - with the emphasis on fun.

With the AMB timing system now well entrenched - its possible to simply divide the "entries on the day" x the field size that you want to run. 20, 25,30 per race? - just decide on the day. "A", "B" , "C", & "D" etc. More needed if entry numbers are high or field sizes small.

One meeting you might turn up on your bike & qualify in the "B" group , but at the next due to the level or quality or amount of entires, you may end up in the "C" or the "A" group.

Plenty of track time, plenty of race time & plenty of close racing.

The main hassle i see if there were bikes with BIG differences in straightline speed............... I.E someone on a gsxr1000 that hasnt learnt to go around corners yet - out there amongst the higher grade classes. Also if you ride more than one bike - and if you happen to qualify them in the same group you would need to decide which one you wernt going to ride.

IMO - Motards shouldnt be excluded either.

The danger of course for the club - is that this set up would be a very different approach/philosophy and will no doubt piss a lot of people off who dont like change. Plus there are those that want to "win" a club championship class made up of similar performance machines. These people could still win a grade class though which still carries some mana.

Personally I have nothing to gain form this type of race format - in fact it would be a bad thing as i would likely end up in the "A" group on an F3 bike or my old Donkey Post Classic, with little chance at the top 3.

On the plus side though, plenty of track time, plenty of close racing, plenty of value for money.

Will it ever happen ? - , I very much doubt it ! :-)
Glen W

[jellywrestler]

The main hassle i see if there were bikes with BIG differences in straightline speed............... I.E someone on a gsxr1000 that hasnt learnt to go around corners yet

Not to many worries there,
Craig Shirriffs doesn't do the winter series...

[codgyoleracer]

Not to many worries there,
Craig Shirriffs doesn't do the winter series...

You'll get the back of my Jandal BOY!

[White trash]

Wow, theres some pretty far reaching ideas in the above.
"Club racing" as the name suggests - need not be the same set up or follow the NZ nationals format.
It should be an opportunity for the organizing club to hold events that its club members want to participate in, - with the emphasis on fun.

With the AMB timing system now well entrenched - its possible to simply divide the "entries on the day" x the field size that you want to run. 20, 25,30 per race? - just decide on the day. "A", "B" , "C", & "D" etc. More needed if entry numbers are high or field sizes small.

One meeting you might turn up on your bike & qualify in the "B" group , but at the next due to the level or quality or amount of entires, you may end up in the "C" or the "A" group.

Plenty of track time, plenty of race time & plenty of close racing.

The main hassle i see if there were bikes with BIG differences in straightline speed............... I.E someone on a gsxr1000 that hasnt learnt to go around corners yet - out there amongst the higher grade classes. Also if you ride more than one bike - and if you happen to qualify them in the same group you would need to decide which one you wernt going to ride.

IMO - Motards shouldnt be excluded either.

The danger of course for the club - is that this set up would be a very different approach/philosophy and will no doubt piss a lot of people off who dont like change. Plus there are those that want to "win" a club championship class made up of similar performance machines. These people could still win a grade class though which still carries some mana.

Personally I have nothing to gain form this type of race format - in fact it would be a bad thing as i would likely end up in the "A" group on an F3 bike or my old Donkey Post Classic, with little chance at the top 3.

On the plus side though, plenty of track time, plenty of close racing, plenty of value for money.

Will it ever happen ? - , I very much doubt it ! :-)
Glen W

Seemed to work very well in 98 for Tim Gibbes Suzuki Winter Series. They even paid prize money!

[jellywrestler]

You'll get the back of my Jandal BOY!

jeez Glen, are you Bipolar or what?

remember this wee bit of advice???
In order of appearance Kiwibonker is to used as an outlet for -

1) Humour (with as much Sarcasm as possible)



I hate being bi-polar, its' fucking awesome

[codgyoleracer]

jeez Glen, are you Bipolar or what?

remember this wee bit of advice???
In order of appearance Kiwibonker is to used as an outlet for -

1) Humour (with as much Sarcasm as possible)



I hate being bi-polar, its' fucking awesome

All us redheads are bro

[gixerracer]

Not to many worries there,
Craig Shirriffs doesn't do the winter series...

You no those unpais invoices I have. Yea they just went in the bin and I dont no what invoices you are talking about

[White trash]

You no those unpais invoices I have. Yea they just went in the bin and I dont no what invoices you are talking about

I don't think he's too fussed as I doubt he could understand what you were saying from that little jumble of words.............

[crazy man]

a pre 94 class would be good could put them in with the pre 89s to make more numbers

[Shaun]

All us redheads are bro

This one 100% IS, might help explain a few things in my life. It is easy to deal with ME now I am aware of it, shame I f'ddd a few people of along the way and a real shame I lost one good friend through it all