Mugello — il Gran Premio d'Italia!

[Shaun]

When stoner won the Champoinsip, was the bike still runing the tube frame?

YES MATE, they changed at a later date

[Shaun]

Think I questioned some time ago if carbon fibre was the right thing to be using for a frame...

Carbon fibre for a FRAME is fine! But the design they have now has NO FRAME, it has a front end attached to a rear end VIA the motor, so the motor effectively is the Frame, and there is no way in hell that you can hide/divorce that amount of HP

[Crasherfromwayback]

Carbon fibre for a FRAME is fine! But the design they have now has NO FRAME, it has a front end attached to a rear end VIA the motor, so the motor effectively is the Frame, and there is no way in hell that you can hide/divorce that amount of HP

My understanding of it is that the airbox structure etc is the frame...along with the engine?

[Shaun]

My understanding of it is that the airbox structure etc is the frame...along with the engine?

Yes it is, but take a good look at the way it all bolts together to become a total rolling unit, the ENGINE is actually the KEY part/structure of the so called FRAME, so that RIGID AS hunk of metal PULLSING to hell and back on and off the throttle ( Even with the trickest dam electronics availlable) are never going to be able divorce itself from the chassis/suspension action feelings. Chassis pitch on it must be nothing short of fuckin awfull

The suspension units are being asked to try a FIX problems that are totally out of there control which in turn over or under works the tyres. They could raise rear swingarm pivot or lower and get gains, they can change AIRBOX STEARING head angle and get losses or gains, but they will never get a perfect base setting working motorbike wih the frame itself NOT being able to be adjusted, ie thinner of thicker side walls, more or less gussets, more or less bolts, motor position forward back up down etc

[Crasherfromwayback]

The suspension units are being asked to try a FIX problems that are totally out of there control which in turn over or under works the tyres. They could raise rear swingarm pivot or lower and get gains, they can change AIRBOX STEARING head angle and get losses or gains, but they will never get a perfect base setting working motorbike wih the frame itself being able to be adjusted, ie thinner of thicker side walls, more or less gussets, more or less bolts, motor position forward back up down etc

Nice. Best they go back to having a 'proper' frame then!

[SWERVE]

Yes it is, but take a good look at the way it all bolts together to become a total rolling unit, the ENGINE is actually the KEY part/structure of the so called FRAME, so that RIGID AS hunk of metal PULLSING to hell and back on and off the throttle ( Even with the trickest dam electronics availlable) are never going to be able divorce itself from the chassis/suspension action feelings. Chassis pitch on it must be nothing short of fuckin awfull

The suspension units are being asked to try a FIX problems that are totally out of there control which in turn over or under works the tyres. They could raise rear swingarm pivot or lower and get gains, they can change AIRBOX STEARING head angle and get losses or gains, but they will never get a perfect base setting working motorbike wih the frame itself being able to be adjusted, ie thinner of thicker side walls, more or less gussets, more or less bolts, motor position forward back up down etc

See Shaun you can make alot of sense.............when you want too
good analogy bud.

[Brian d marge]

Can also add to that, its the control of the stresses, and if you think of the engine as loosely bolted together , ie some italian forgot to do up all the fasteners on the engine, you can see whats happening to all the bits inside, crankshaft for example not being held and flexing , so as I said before , u have to make the cases stronger , fine on a vincent 18 bhp ...but there are some stresses in one of those motogp things ...so that the stresses go through the engine but around or past critical components

THEN, if that wasn't enough , you have the "lay the fibles to get the desired stiffness, " ie carbon is stiffest in one dierction. so that isnt going to be easy as (frame) stiffness is a seat of the pants thing ( rider feel)

So as shaun says , the chassis pitch from the torque reaction ,in both planes,, high centre of gravity and chassis feeling vague??, ( design) ,

IMHO it wont tip into corners, ( not sure if it would flop into corners or want to remain upright ...imagine a gyro on a longer lever ). When you do get it into a corner there wont be any feeling from the front vague??? untrustworthy?? not sure how you would describe it

IF ROssi wins on that , well done that man ,,,if he wins a championship , EVEn with 1000 cc which may mask the faults ,,,hes a legend ( he has more chance on my Enfield )

how they are going to fix it ...no idea , bin it and start again ........ tui moment .....

Phillip Morris will have to dig deep ,,,so start buying Italian ciggies !!!everyone

Stephen

[Shaun]

As the set up is now, to start dialling more flex into it, they need to start makeing the front and rear THINNER/LIGHTER and that is potentually dangerous? Make the forks more flexable and loose feel from them, NO WIN

# EDITED THIS TO MAKE MORE SENSE! Carbon fibre is at its strongest anti flex strength in short sections like the swingarm and the Airbox/stearing head, so they are also now heading into danger safety wise, with jack shit time left to make it fast and safe using Carbon Fibre.

Metal is a coming, or as Crasher has suggested, ROSSI MAY BE GOING mmmmm Where to?

[Shaun]

See Shaun you can make alot of sense.............when you want too
good analogy bud.

Cheers Dude

[denill]

Interesting guys and it seems to make sense.

And another issue that Schwantz: wrote about:

I've heard that Rossi is already on his fifth engine. That means he only has one more left. I assume that if you have to use more than six engines, you have to start at the back, no matter where you qualify. That could be huge for the sport. I can only imagine that they'll try and find some way, or some exception to it. I'm sure they'll point out that a couple of years ago they let Suzuki have some extra engines, and didn't do anything to them. I'm sure they'll continue to leverage that position. "What do you mean, you want us to start at the back? You gave those guys extra motors. Give us some." Not to say that Valentino is above the rules, or Ducati, either one. But to see the 46 start at the back of every race ... I don't know. It might be really entertaining, especially if they get that bike sorted out a little bit. You might be surprised how far through the field he could get it.

[Shaun]

Interesting guys and it seems to make sense.

And another issue that Schwantz: wrote about:

I've heard that Rossi is already on his fifth engine. That means he only has one more left. I assume that if you have to use more than six engines, you have to start at the back, no matter where you qualify. That could be huge for the sport. I can only imagine that they'll try and find some way, or some exception to it. I'm sure they'll point out that a couple of years ago they let Suzuki have some extra engines, and didn't do anything to them. I'm sure they'll continue to leverage that position. "What do you mean, you want us to start at the back? You gave those guys extra motors. Give us some." Not to say that Valentino is above the rules, or Ducati, either one. But to see the 46 start at the back of every race ... I don't know. It might be really entertaining, especially if they get that bike sorted out a little bit. You might be surprised how far through the field he could get it.

See, even Schwantz is reading KB these days

[Wingnut]

ROSSI MAY BE GOING mmmmm Where to?

WSBK............ Paging Mr Biaggi........

[Shaun]

WSBK............ Paging Mr Biaggi........

nah man, I do not see Rossi leaving untill the 1000 has been back out there. He will not leave the scene a LOOSER, way to much pride I think for that and he IS STILL cappable of winning races in MOTOGP

[gixerracer]

Can also add to that, its the control of the stresses, and if you think of the engine as loosely bolted together , ie some italian forgot to do up all the fasteners on the engine, you can see whats happening to all the bits inside, crankshaft for example not being held and flexing , so as I said before , u have to make the cases stronger , fine on a vincent 18 bhp ...but there are some stresses in one of those motogp things ...so that the stresses go through the engine but around or past critical components

THEN, if that wasn't enough , you have the "lay the fibles to get the desired stiffness, " ie carbon is stiffest in one dierction. so that isnt going to be easy as (frame) stiffness is a seat of the pants thing ( rider feel)

So as shaun says , the chassis pitch from the torque reaction ,in both planes,, high centre of gravity and chassis feeling vague??, ( design) ,

IMHO it wont tip into corners, ( not sure if it would flop into corners or want to remain upright ...imagine a gyro on a longer lever ). When you do get it into a corner there wont be any feeling from the front vague??? untrustworthy?? not sure how you would describe it

IF ROssi wins on that , well done that man ,,,if he wins a championship , EVEn with 1000 cc which may mask the faults ,,,hes a legend ( he has more chance on my Enfield )

how they are going to fix it ...no idea , bin it and start again ........ tui moment .....

Phillip Morris will have to dig deep ,,,so start buying Italian ciggies !!!everyone

Stephen

Stoner won plenty on it

[Crasherfromwayback]

Stoner won plenty on it

Wot he says