Burqa

[MSTRS:Me]

Their faith requires it though... No Christian thinks that they should be wearing something and if they aren't they are committing sin?

So?

[superman]

So?

So saying they cannot wear them would be like telling Christian kids they have to take lying classes. Or that they must come into school on a Sunday for detention...

[MSTRS:Me]

No. Telling them they can't wear such clothing would be the same as telling a Christian they can't wear a cross.
Allowing one without the other is a double standard, and pandering to a minority. And we know where that leads...

[bogan]

I don't know about that. But there are quite few high schools that have Muslim students and the girls all wear head scarves. That is a visual sign of their faith/culture and I am saying that Christian signs are not allowed. It is a double standard in that respect.

Is that the case in a lot of schools? I always thought Christian signs etc were all good.

[superman]

No. Telling them they can't wear such clothing would be the same as telling a Christian they can't wear a cross.
Allowing one without the other is a double standard, and pandering to a minority. And we know where that leads...

You really don't get it.

Christians do not think they will be in eternal hell fire for not wearing a cross.

Muslims think they will be in eternal hell fire for not wearing modest clothing.

It's very simple...

[superman]

Is that the case in a lot of schools? I always thought Christian signs etc were all good.

I've never heard of Jewish kids being told they cannot wear Kippah's even though lots of schools have their "no hats inside" rule.

[Usarka]

Their faith requires it though... No Christian thinks that they should be wearing something and if they aren't they are committing sin?

Bollox, islam does not require the wearing of burqas. How many indonesians or pakis do you see wearing them?

[superman]

Bollox, islam does not require the wearing of burqas. How many indonesians or pakis do you see wearing them?

That's like saying Christianity doesn't require women not to teach. Anglicans allow it, protestants allow it, Catholics haven't for a long time and are only now beginning to adjust, Jehovah Witnesses definitely don't allow women to become elders..

The verse... 1 Tim. 2: 11. Let a woman learn in silence, with all submission: 12. for I do not allow a woman to teach or to be assuming over the man; but let her remain in stillness.

And I have posted previously the verses from the Qur'an that say "modest" dress is required. By far the majority of Islamic women wear a hijab. However some might believe that to still not be modest enough... Religions are very subjective... Just like Jehovah's Witnesses say the bible tells them not to allow blood transfusions, Jews like to mutilate their boys genitals a few days after they are born etc etc.

Again... absolutely stupid things to follow... but it is their right to do so within this country for now.

[mashman]

Why does it threaten people? I see no real reason for forcing people to remove "religious" items when they're in public or private. Yes I agree that they should remove it on request of a police person... but other than that, whoever asks for it to be removed should expect to be told to fuck off.

[Usarka]

Again... absolutely stupid things to follow... but it is their right to do so within this country for now.

I disagree, they are allowed the same rights as me, and i wouldn't get away with it. The "tolerance" is against the law and breaches my human rights.

[superman]

I disagree, they are allowed the same rights as me, and i wouldn't get away with it. The "tolerance" is against the law and breaches my human rights.

You are allowed to believe what you like... How is a women wearing a burqa a breach of your human rights?

Would you say the same seeing one of these which are perfectly legal to wear most public places...

[James Deuce]

Five pages in and no one's even tried to point out that a burqa leaves the face uncovered? Those Muslim women have a point about us being ignorant.

You're all talking about a niqab which is the head scarf with the letterbox slot for the eyes. Useful for keeping sand out of your nose and mouth and for shading your eyes while herding goats in a sandstorm.

Not so clever in a bank. Which is one of our customs that the majority are forced to follow. No hoodies, hats, sunglasses, or helmets on in banks. Hoodies are traditional garb so there's precedent for asking a person to remove their niqab.

[Swoop]

Did anyone else see this article?

Mask wearers want no part of the West except our privileges.

Even the most reasonable Kiwi will tell you they hate the full-face covering. To hell with the burqa. It has no place here. This is my considered opinion after giving the matter extensive thought. It really is an offensive piece of medieval kit that speaks of medievalism and religious extremism.

Actually, I use the word burqa loosely. Everyone does. The burqa is actually the entire - generally black - covering enshrouding the clothes a woman has underneath it.

And in fact, in the countries where Islam reigns, they tend to have stalled in their development several hundreds of years ago so the general cleanliness of their communities - and by that I mean the dust flying round and the rubbish people discard - and the burqa helps keeps your clothes cleaner for longer. This was my observation in Yemen.

But in this country the burqa seems to be an imprisonment of women. It just seems mad. You know it's about women having to hide themselves. It's nothing to do with Allah, either. It predates the Koran. It just suited the men who adopted the teachings of the Prophet to keep the woman subjugated.

So I'm not actually bothered too much by the burqa. It just looks silly, antiquated, foreign. What bothers people in New Zealand, and what bothered our two bus drivers, was the face mask or niqab.

I don't think we mind too much the head scarf, the hijab, though I'm sure most of us think it silly, in the same way we think Exclusive Brethren women silly with their inevitable covering of the hair. You see head scarf and you know you're looking at bigotry.

No, it's the mask. The scarf wrapped round the head and underneath it, just below the eyes, the niqab. What's more, it is intimidating.

It says: "I am not part of your filthy heathen community. I'm here enjoying all of the privileges the enlightened West can provide, but I don't really approve of you all and have no desire to be part of you. I am happy to be a long way from the atrocities, monstrosities and medievalism of the country I fled, but still, I cannot be part of you."

Culturalism, schmulteralism. Muslim women in this country have to get real. This is where you live, and as the timeless saying puts it, "When in Rome..."

Look, if one of us is going to a Middle Eastern or Muslim country we make sure we take suitable clothes. So New Zealand women will take clothes that cover their body and they'll take a headscarf. We know it. Wear a pair of cut-off jeans in Morocco, for example, and get spat on and mauled by the men. That's what happens. I've seen it.

In our communities, we expect to see the face of the person we are meeting or trading or interacting with. We don't like seeing a face covered. Simple as that. To us it seems deceitful, weird, untrustworthy. Want to get ahead in New Zealand and Australia? Take off your stupid niqabs.

I venture to suggest that even the most reasonable New Zealander - even the most pro-immigration as I am - will tell you they hate the Muslim face mask.

The French, in overwhelming numbers right through their legislative process, banned them in April.

Said Nicolas Sarkozy, "In our country we cannot accept that women can be prisoners behind a screen, cut off from all social life, deprived of all identity." That says it all, really. And the legislation simply "forbids the concealment of one's face in public". Which is the objection most of us would have here. It ain't right to cover your face. And it ain't right to try and get on a bus with your face covered up because of some old medieval claptrap. It ain't how we do things. It is, as Sarkozy says, all about imprisonment.

By Paul Holmes

[HenryDorsetCase]

So saying they cannot wear them would be like telling Christian kids they have to take lying classes. Or that they must come into school on a Sunday for detention...

bit harsh innit? the poor bastards are already trapped in church by their misguided parents.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Why does it threaten people? I see no real reason for forcing people to remove "religious" items when they're in public or private. Yes I agree that they should remove it on request of a police person... but other than that, whoever asks for it to be removed should expect to be told to fuck off.

how about the religious people who practice female genital mutilation? You're all about their freedom to do that too, I take it?