Burqa

[Usarka]

how about the religious people who practice female genital mutilation? You're all about their freedom to do that too, I take it?

To me the criteria for these things is simple:

• Is it their free choice?
• Does it not hurt anyone else?
• Would I or any other NZ'er be allowed to do it?

If yes to all the above (sorry for the double negative) then go for gold.

[Banditbandit]

Bollox, islam does not require the wearing of burqas. How many indonesians or pakis do you see wearing them?

Hmmm ... that's a doubtful position. Islam is no more unified than Christianity .. so the teachings of different schools and sects of Islam varies considerably ...

Here's the most referred to verse from the Koran (Qur'an) to support burqa's ...

"O Prophet! Say to your wives and your daughters and the women of the faithful to draw their outergarments (jilbabs) close around themselves; that is better that they will be recognized and not annoyed. And God is ever Forgiving, Gentle."

Qur'an Surah/Chapter Al-Ahzab Ayah/Verse 59

But it's not a matter of what tghe Koran says - it's a matter of what people belive it says - just as the Christian Bible is interpretable, so is the Koran.

[mashman]

how about the religious people who practice female genital mutilation? You're all about their freedom to do that too, I take it?

If it was the woman that chose to have it, yes.

[James Deuce]

If it was the woman that chose to have it, yes.

They don't. It's done to children.

[Usarka]

But it's not a matter of what tghe Koran says - it's a matter of what people belive it says - just as the Christian Bible is interpretable, so is the Koran.

Yep agreed. Which takes me back to my OP - Brian Tamaki could interpret the bible as saying people should wear balaclavas.

Would a bunch of Maori's be allowed to walk around town like that?

They don't. It's done to children.

So it's not ok.

Ah I see what you're doing there! But what about circumcisian!!

[James Deuce]

Ah I see what you're doing there! But what about circumcisian!!

Fallen largely out of favour in Western medicine. Usually only done as a medical procedure because the foreskin is restrictive and usually at a much later age than birth.

[mashman]

They don't. It's done to children.

I know. Fuckin disgusting practice.

[Banditbandit]

Yep agreed. Which takes me back to my OP - Brian Tamaki could interpret the bible as saying people should wear balaclavas.

Would a bunch of Maori's be allowed to walk around town like that?

Hmm ... could be an interesting argument ... Can you convince Bishop Tamaki () to try it?

And if they were in balaclavas how would you know they are Māori ???

[MD]

Why does it threaten people? I see no real reason for forcing people to remove "religious" items when they're in public or private. Yes I agree that they should remove it on request of a police person... but other than that, whoever asks for it to be removed should expect to be told to fuck off.

Really? Maybe it doesn't threaten you if you have lived such a peaceful sheltered life. Nowadays most of us are aware that the world is full of madmen, mass killers and terrorists. Incidentally the most common garden variety terrorist we hear about these days seems to be of middle eastern origins/beliefs/appearance.

I was living in London in the early 80s when the IRA were active, as in blowing British people up active. I saw first hand bomb damage where people had died weeks earlier. Later I was nearby the burger bar in Oxford Street when a bomb disposal soldier died. I heard the blast, I felt the percussion while sitting in my car. Londoners at that time were SCARED. Warnings all over town, on the tubes to be alert to suspect parcels & people. You looked carefully at strangers. I genuinely was nervous walking near those UK mail boxes because they had been blown up before. The idea of a stanger near you hiding their face, hiding their identity, hiding their expression and any clue as to the nature of the person was unacceptable. You need to see someone to truly judge their character and intent and mood etc. That's a freedom of right we all deserve.

NZers have grown up being able to see each others faces. It's a simple way to tell their mood, tempers, friendliness etc. and makes for a far better interaction. Imagine having a business negotiation where the other person is hiding behind a mask. Unacceptable and yes, intimidating.

...
No, it's the mask. The scarf wrapped round the head and underneath it, just below the eyes, the niqab. What's more, it is intimidating.

It says: "I am not part of your filthy heathen community. I'm here enjoying all of the privileges the enlightened West can provide, but I don't really approve of you all and have no desire to be part of you. I am happy to be a long way from the atrocities, monstrosities and medievalism of the country I fled, but still, I cannot be part of you."

Culturalism, schmulteralism. Muslim women in this country have to get real. This is where you live, and as the timeless saying puts it, "When in Rome..."

Look, if one of us is going to a Middle Eastern or Muslim country we make sure we take suitable clothes. So New Zealand women will take clothes that cover their body and they'll take a headscarf. We know it. Wear a pair of cut-off jeans in Morocco, for example, and get spat on and mauled by the men. That's what happens. I've seen it.

In our communities, we expect to see the face of the person we are meeting or trading or interacting with. We don't like seeing a face covered. Simple as that. To us it seems deceitful, weird, untrustworthy. Want to get ahead in New Zealand and Australia? Take off your stupid niqabs.

I venture to suggest that even the most reasonable New Zealander - even the most pro-

Well said that man.
When I see woman in town covered behind burgas or niqabs it screams "we don't want to associate with you western scum" Oh but we want to live in your western scum society because it's way better than ours at home

[Berries]

See, this thread has enlightened me. Unfortunately, if the burqa is supposed to keep male eyes off your nice lady it no longer works. I did a Google search and found that, like true Scotchmen, you should wear nothing under the cloth.

Gives me a totally new understanding and, to be frank, a bit of a turn on.

[superman]

See, this thread has enlightened me. Unfortunately, if the burqa is supposed to keep male eyes off your nice lady it no longer works. I did a Google search and found that, like true Scotchmen, you should wear nothing under the cloth.

Gives me a totally new understanding and, to be frank, a bit of a turn on.

Lol shall we all wolf whistle at them? Doing exactly the opposite of what they are trying to achieve by objectifying them KEEEEN.

Read Paul Holmes article in the paper... I think he nails it pretty well.

[Brian d marge]

Really? Maybe it doesn't threaten you if you have lived such a peaceful sheltered life. Nowadays most of us are aware that the world is full of madmen, mass killers and terrorists. Incidentally the most common garden variety terrorist we hear about these days seems to be of middle eastern origins/beliefs/appearance.

I was living in London in the early 80s when the IRA were active, as in blowing British people up active. I saw first hand bomb damage where people had died weeks earlier. Later I was nearby the burger bar in Oxford Street when a bomb disposal soldier died. I heard the blast, I felt the percussion while sitting in my car. Londoners at that time were SCARED. Warnings all over town, on the tubes to be alert to suspect parcels & people. You looked carefully at strangers. I genuinely was nervous walking near those UK mail boxes because they had been blown up before. The idea of a stanger near you hiding their face, hiding their identity, hiding their expression and any clue as to the nature of the person was unacceptable. You need to see someone to truly judge their character and intent and mood etc. That's a freedom of right we all deserve.

NZers have grown up being able to see each others faces. It's a simple way to tell their mood, tempers, friendliness etc. and makes for a far better interaction. Imagine having a business negotiation where the other person is hiding behind a mask. Unacceptable and yes, intimidating.



Well said that man.



When I see woman in town covered behind burgas or niqabs it screams "we don't want to associate with you western scum" Oh but we want to live in your western scum society because it's way better than ours at home

try living down the road from st Marys Axe , and having half the family from Belfast ,,, ( Rathcoole , for those that know )

and the ones that haven't a clue are white Protestant males ,,,,,,,,, now them I don't want to be associated with , do my head in Big style

Stephen

[Swoop]

Well said that man.

I was surprised to read that from paul holmes. I simply cannot stand the obnoxious little prick. But he has hit the nail quite nicely on the head.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I was surprised to read that from paul holmes. I simply cannot stand the obnoxious little prick. But he has hit the nail quite nicely on the head.

exactly what I thought too. I fuckin' hate Paul Holmes (also Paul Henry) but he definitely made sense in that piece.

[HenryDorsetCase]

See, this thread has enlightened me. Unfortunately, if the burqa is supposed to keep male eyes off your nice lady it no longer works. I did a Google search and found that, like true Scotchmen, you should wear nothing under the cloth.

Gives me a totally new understanding and, to be frank, a bit of a turn on.

Middle eastern women are hot: that olive skin, curvy, long dark hair (only on their heads too: at least on the internets) and the big brown eyes.

Hmmmm. might have to do some more, um, "research" on that topic myself....