Leaky buildings. Thinking of buying a post '95 home? Own one?

[Ocean1]

Selective breeding, choose the fastest straightest trees and axe the rest. (GF number)
All species vary in density and by location. Pine (radiata) varies considerably from Invagiggle to the Far north. Gissy has some of the better MOE. Its the MOE that the industry uses as the main benchmark.
Japan was set up for hardwoods and the concept that softwoods could have the density and durability for JAS accreditation was out left field. Water under the bridge now. Biggest prob is humidity and machining to NZ EMC only for it to grow on the boat.

Sounds right. Got a fucking great slab of genuine pencil-grained Oregon in the gargre. Geneticaly near identical to the Douglas fir we grow here I think, but quite different structurally. It's for a mast, if I had to use NZ timber it'd probably be Mac, and maybe 30% thicker. Like I said, if you use appropriate sections most materials have a viable end use.

I think the product you are refering to was Weatherside, it in fact was a oil tempered hardboard .... same shit as seratone.. used in bath rooms and just like at the base of the shower, the stuff falls apart. The new crap is called silver seal. Oh the power of marketing. And unlike JH these guys paid out for houses to be reclad.

I only saw half a dozen instances, but it was definitely not hardboard-like. Looked for all the world like the MDF you'd get at Bunnings. Briefly. Later it looked like weetbix.

[merv]

If you are talking about Weatherside it definitely was the brown oil tempered hardboard stuff as porky says and it came painted with pink primer. I replaced it on two houses - lasted a few years and Forest products paid full replacement up to 7 years old I think it was and beyond 7 years old they provided the materials (Hardiplank as replacement) and you had to pay labour yourself.

Ocean1 if you def have a thought on MDF type stuff then that wasn't Weatherside would've been something else which I can't say I remember.

[Laava]

I always think it is ironic that after thousands of years of building homes, we haven't sorted out the leak issue! Pandanus leaves anyone?

[jaffaonajappa]

I always think it is ironic that after thousands of years of building homes, we haven't sorted out the leak issue! Pandanus leaves anyone?

Ahh, but we did sort the leak issues.
But then we tried to do it on the cheap....while making it appear more expensive.
Like the Doco pointed out - traditional flashings are great even after 100 years....silicones not so 'flash'.

[Brett]

I have reasonable experience evaluating/investigating houses, particularly of late houses built between 1990 and 2011 (yes...leaky houses STILL BEING BUILT!!) that have tended to have cladding systems that put them at high risk of leaking. It is amazing, you can walk into a house that looks all fine and dandy on the inside still (ie no mushrooms or mould growing anywhere) and yet thermal imaging and moisture testing show very wet timber behind the GIB.

If anyone would like, PM me & I will give you my number. I am happy to answer questions you may have. Hate to see people get stuck with a lemon property!

[ellipsis]

...the whole of this issue lies at the feet of the providers of this composite shit that the inane populace of the country has bought, lock, stock and barrel, mainly because its being endorsed by some nondescript fucks called BRANZ and some other fucks called the experts and lobby groups that hang around Wgtn, wining and dining and dishonestly representing the truth...

...linea is just the name of a failed product, glued up dust...failed in the Tasman district within months of its unveiling...these cunts only survive in being in bizzo because , fuckwits buy into it..

[BMWST?]

there is nothing wrong with the timber framing and timber weatherboards we use on our houses.There are many many many houses that are pushing 100 years ,and there will be many many houses with radiata pine framing that will be over 50 years old,and many many houses with "modern" pine framing will be pushing 20 years old.
The leaky homes thing is not just about claddings,windows were installed without flashings,flat roofs with internal gutters is just a leak waiting to happen,houses with small overhangs(or no overhangs) are much much more risky than conventional house forms.Some of the so called "building" and "designs" were severely lacking.

[ellipsis]

...i was not only decrying the composite shit called linea, but the whole product driven industry, driven by money hungry nz corporates, carter holt harvey for one, probing fingers with cash ,straight up the receptive passages of the law makers and the rule breakers..cunts like Parker and his ilk are pure puppets of a small bunch of small minded,short sighted, introverted, money making arseholes, who have the balls of our miniscule state in their greasy little mits...and we are fucking paying for their lifestyles...i hope the cunts die in misery...

[Quasievil]

...Linea weatherboards will warp in certain temps right?

No, Linear wont Warp, this product can be painted dark colors, the LRV light reflective value can be high without issue

it is virtually impossible to install and maintain it correctly.

Bollocks, the installation method is based on and is virtually identical to the timber weatherboard process, the only real difference is the addition of significant weather tightness systems, around windows etc.

The Linea stuff has "issues". Delamination being the primary one. This has been kept very quiet. Ingress of moisture is a bastard as the composition of the product allows this.

Really I havent heard this at all, how exactly do you keep this quiet in this modern age, sounds like bullshit to me

Some installers are disregarding the back of the product, yet coating this area is vital, also the joins have to be done exactly perfect. Anything less =

The Back comes preprimed as far as Im aware, at least it was.

The manufacturer of the main product involved with monolithic claddings (& leaky homes) has created these weatherboards as a solution to their first fuck-up.

Bullshit, the main contributor to leaky homes was the builders, end of story.

The James Hardy thing I agree with. They once introduced what amounted to MDF, (customwood) planks as a cladding material. Guess what...

Sheeesh ........... really did they, they faked the moon landing to did you know that?

...the whole of this issue lies at the feet of the providers of this composite shit that the inane populace of the country has bought, lock, stock and barrel, mainly because its being endorsed by some nondescript fucks called BRANZ and some other fucks called the experts and lobby groups that hang around Wgtn, wining and dining and dishonestly representing the truth...

...linea is just the name of a failed product, glued up dust...failed in the Tasman district within months of its unveiling...these cunts only survive in being in bizzo because , fuckwits buy into it..

See this is so untrue, and I will reveal now that I was territory manager for James Hardie for a number of years, I was caught up right smack in the middle of when this weather tightness issue blew up. As Part of my role I inspected JH systems that had "apparently failed" and I had to write reports on the issues and submit them to councils etc.
NOT ONCE did I see an issue where the material was to blame 100% of the cases where completely absolutely SOLEY down to the muppets installing the product.
Typical issues where, no control or expansion joints, no interfloor control joints, no cover around windows (not the aluminium joinery suppliers minimised the reduced the outside flange which gave 5 mm cover at best on windows) no sealant around windows, using product on top of ballastrades (hardie tex and the like is not a roof material) poor fastenings, no building paper..............the list goes on and on
All due to poor installation, never due to product.

A classic example was a significant commercial project in Hamilton where the Titan system was being used, I went to site over a week and gave 3 x 1 hour training sessions to the builders about how to install titan, I went away and came back 2 weeks later to find, not only had they installed it incorrectly they completely disregarded the method for horizontial joints,(my return was to approve the installation for the council) I told them I wont approve it and they had to take it all down and do it properly..............well the Big Bosses where on site in about 5 minutes demanding I approve it to the point where they threatened me also, one of them noted to me "I been building for 40 years and a young prick like you aint going to teach me anything"
That was typical, they HAD to remove it all and start again at significant cost to them (I gave zero financal support) I later went to another 3 odd jobs built a few years prior using the same Titan system where each building was leaking, all of them was built by that same builder.................he is out of business now.

I can repeat that same story many times with the same outcome

Im firmly planted on this, I have seen and been involved in it extensively and as I say I know who was/is to blame for it.

Actually I will throw in the architects also, specifying the wrong products for the wrong application...........i.e Harditex as a roof.

Would I buy a Harditex house built in the 90's Nope as I could guarantee that it wouldnt have been built correctly...........like 95% of houses.

[Swoop]

Selective breeding, choose the fastest straightest trees and axe the rest.
"Selective breeding" is a term that could be applied to it, but there has been extensive modification of the genetic structure of the pinus radiata species over the years.

How many of you know that if you want to plant pine trees commercially, then there is a choice of approcimately 12 "types" of the species that are modified to suit specific requirements.
Want to plant a forest = "type a"
Want to have shelter belt trees = "type b"
Want trees that will have greater spacing and have cattle around them = "type c"
etc,
etc.

Our timber is soft and getting softer.

If "normal" is north American pine then yes, ours is less dense, and yes that's related to the fact that it grows in half the time.

Really I havent heard this at all, how exactly do you keep this quiet in this modern age, sounds like bullshit to me.

Well, you could do some talking to the people who use this shit. Another ticking timebomb waiting to go off.

Actually I will throw in the architects also, specifying the wrong products for the wrong application.

It is a triangle of problems. Builders, architects AND inspectors. As you saw on the programme I linked to, unqualified "tradespeople" are a serious danger. That is being addressed by gubbinment (supposedly), but it is being watered down and will end up being another complete joke that creates paperwork, increases prices to the consumer and solves nothing.


Really it is four when we add in crappy materials.


Nope, five. I forgot inept / incompetent / shady developers.

[Quasievil]

[I]

Really it is four when we add in crappy materials.

ALL materials are crappy if not constructed correctly.

[Winston001]

I always think it is ironic that after thousands of years of building homes, we haven't sorted out the leak issue! Pandanus leaves anyone?

10 points for that man. Agreed.

Although we did sort out weatherproof homes more than 5000 years ago. Not totally watertight in extreme conditions but that was allowed for.

It beggars belief in a world where we land spacecraft on the moon and can talk over tiny copper wires (or no wires at all) that our newest houses rot and fall to pieces.

The leaky home syndrome showed up in Vancouver in the late 1990s - did nobody in NZ notice??

[mashman]

Got a 60's/70's weatherboard house and have been told to stay away from Dark Colour paints as the heat will warp the timber (bigger change from hot to cold etc). is this what you are having problems with?

That's part of it, according to the "experts"... although it's not our only issue with the stuff... How it was put together has been questioned too.

[dangerous]

If you are thinking about buying a house that has been built after 1995 OR if you own one, this documentary is well worth worth watching.

http://tvnz.co.nz/a-rotten-shame/s1-e1-video-4288887

There has not been any form of resolution to this issue and homeowners face even more uncertainty to protect their largest asset.


Also. If you are having repair work done DO NOT touch "Linea" weatherboards from James Hardie. This is another product that will be in the news...
If you want weatherboards on your house, use real timber.

Half of that was correct... half was bullshit...

Dangerous: Builder, spesalising in leaking home repair and rebuilds

That said so as the shit dont come my way at full speed... that house being flatened, what crap it had a pitched roof so leaking would have been on the out side walls only. No need to do that, I re clad and replace any damaged timbers, pollystyrene is bad bad shit soaks water like a rag and contains it against the timbers.
hardies products are shit I have see it flalke and turn to dust, much like it was before being a cladding, I expect to see in time Linia doing the same.
I have removed framing after 10yrs that has also turned to dust, mostley it just gets mouldie.

To say the problem is so extensive is crap, I dont doubt it is worse in Auckland than down here tho.

The Linea stuff has "issues". Delamination being the primary one. This has been kept very quiet. Ingress of moisture is a bastard as the composition of the product allows this.

Really I havent heard this at all, how exactly do you keep this quiet in this modern age, sounds like bullshit to me

Well you have now, what Swoop says is 100% correct

Bullshit, the main contributor to leaky homes was the builders, end of story.

Hindsight is a grand thing, eg: last year I did a 200k reclad on a house... the building pratice was just how I did it 13yrs ago, yes in hindsite not so good, however no one knew any digfferent.
The same house had roofing, flashing, plumbing, cladding, plastering issues all failing... add bad inspections, bad designs all add up to a farking mess... but ABOVE all the owners got what they wanted, after all the client is allways RIGHT ie: ya do what they want.
questions please? (for Quasie's sake, building related)

[Quasievil]

questions please?

is it possible for Birds (the winged variety) to be gay ?

and ummm

Is it true youre actually a ginga ?