Capital Gains Tax finally on a major party's agenda

[Usarka]

FAIR !!! 17% of the population pay 90% of the tax , lets raise their taxation rate to 39% & hit them with CGT. What could be fairer than that !!!!!

I always though National voters were rational people and the labour voters were the emotional ones.

1) Yes we agree rasing the upper bracket is not fair. No one has said it is apart from the Labour party. This discussion is about CGT.

2) Are you suggesting that lower income earners should pay higher tax rate because they pay less total tax? Or should everyone pay the same?

you really think it will make a difference to the country, your deluded

I'm astounded by the awesome argument.

[BoristheBiter]

what ?? like the stuff that gets shoplifted, or when the local black mongrel power prospect holds them up for the days takings or are you referring to them being able to feed the family out of the shop stock? bloody criminal shopkeepers

No,

Like rates, interest on mortgage, upkeep, insurance, security.

That was what i was meaning.

[JimO]

No,

Like rates, interest on mortgage, upkeep, insurance, security.

That was what i was meaning.

any self employed tradesmen working from home can claim for a portion of that as well

[BoristheBiter]

any self employed tradesmen working from home can claim for that as well

But we are not talking about business which are taxed each year so all out goings are already used.

[trustme]

I always though National voters were rational people and the labour voters were the emotional ones.

1) Yes we agree rasing the upper bracket is not fair. No one has said it is apart from the Labour party. This discussion is about CGT.

2) Are you suggesting that lower income earners should pay higher tax rate because they pay less total tax? Or should everyone pay the same?



I'm astounded by the awesome argument.

Fundamentally I am not opposed to a CGT. Rational people will look to minimise their tax liability. When labour put the top tax rate up to 39% people looked for ways to minimise their liability rather than grow their business. CGT in conjunction with ba tax increase will see investment funds flow out of NZ in an effort to minimise tax liability , it will limit growth because people will not be willing to invest here.
Who remembers the tax exiles from the UK in the 60's

If you were paying 39% Tax + 15% GST + CGT. Would you stay ???

[Blackflagged]

"If you were paying 39% Tax + 15% GST + CGT. Would you stay ???" Now just need to mop up that last bit.

I've never voted labour, always voted national. But I'd suggest unlike you I'm able to open both my eyes and think about what's good for the country rather than just what's good for me or blindly arguing the line of the party that I normally vote for.


I agree, raising the top tax doesn't help their cause and I'd be more supportive if they flattened the tax. But are you suggesting that the scale should be reversed and lower earners should pay tax higher rates???

Income is income. Tax it all or tax none of it.

Thats right Taxs are good for the country!
Have it on family homes and if you do up an old motorbike and sell. Why not income is income.

Use to have 60% death duty`s in NZ now that would make us really successful!

[Usarka]

CGT in conjunction with ba tax increase will see investment funds flow out of NZ in an effort to minimise tax liability , it will limit growth because people will not be willing to invest here.
Who remembers the tax exiles from the UK in the 60's

Foreigners buying NZ shares do not need to pay capital gains when they sell the shares.

Kiwis buying overseas shares will still need to pay capital gains when they sell the shares.

Most of these other countries you describe already have captical gains tax.

[Hitcher]

In the famous words of Bill Clinton, this could be an interesting erection after all.

Or death throes for a political party that has lost touch with the ambitions of the people it once represented? A party that has so few members and unions with assets it will be struggling to fund a campaign come October?

A party with a vision more far sighted than taxing the shit out of "rich" people, perhaps with some ideas for sustainable growth for New Zealand may have a look in.

[trustme]

Foreigners buying NZ shares do not need to pay capital gains when they sell the shares.

Kiwis buying overseas shares will still need to pay capital gains when they sell the shares.

Most of these other countries you describe already have captical gains tax.

I know that you want to discuss CGT on its own merits, in broad terms I actually agree with a CGT . I don't think you can isolate it from Labours overall tax package , I suspect the cumulative effect of their total package will be very negative.

If Labour adopted Roger Douglas's tax reforms of the Rogernomics era then I would very likely be a supporter

What is rich ?? Define who is rich ??

I fall into that upper tax bracket, I live in a reasonable house in a good area , no mortgage still got kids. Funny thing is I am doing it as tough as when I had a small house,3 kids & a mortgage rate of 22 or 23%.
No world trips or expensive holidays, no bach, no boat , no sky , no flash car ,no spare money to plow into a super scheme, wife & I have bikes but no new ones on the horizon, no flash restaurants
Goff & all his cronies earn more than I do & they tell me I'm rich & should pay more tax.
Sounds like the ' poor me's ', no , not until someone starts telling me I'm rich.

Balls.

[Usarka]

Or death throes for a political party that has lost touch with the ambitions of the people it once represented? A party that has so few members and unions with assets it will be struggling to fund a campaign come October?

A party with a vision more far sighted than taxing the shit out of "rich" people, perhaps with some ideas for sustainable growth for New Zealand may have a look in.

I share all the concerns in this thread about Labours intent, ability etc.

The Nats have previously dismissed CGT - not because its a bad idea economically, but because it's "political suicide".

So I'd wager that the beloved National brains trust think it's a good tax, therefore the only argument they can come up with is anti-Labour slogans rather then anti-CGT.

I'd be happiest if National said "fuck it, we'll do it too and flatten out the tax structure".

[trustme]

I share all the concerns in this thread about Labours intent, ability etc.

The Nats have previously dismissed CGT - not because its a bad idea economically, but because it's "political suicide".

So I'd wager that the beloved National brains trust think it's a good tax, therefore the only argument they can come up with is anti-Labour slogans rather then anti-CGT.

I'd be happiest if National said "fuck it, we'll do it too and flatten out the tax structure".

I'd happily wear that

[Swoop]

Looks like this has stuck a few more nails into liabore's coffin.
They really are seriously window-licking mad. One day they will get over their furvent frothing-at-the-mouth hate of the "rich pricks" and may see what a bunch of criminal arseholes they are.

Sale of shares included in the tax.

Don't forget all the other things that get included with that (precious metals, etc)

[Spearfish]

Pinko divide and conquer tactics.
If you think Labours tit still can supply the nation with colostrum then your sadly mistaken, all that's left in the left tit is mastitus the other just white and water.

[trustme]

FAIR !!! 17% of the population pay 90% of the tax , lets raise their taxation rate to 39% & hit them with CGT. What could be fairer than that !!!!!



genuinely interested to know where these figures come from - could either of you post references, please?

Buggered if I can find it , but I don't doubt it. We are talking population not tax payer. Kids don't pay tax, students don't pay tax, beneficiaries of all sorts may pay tax but it is way less tax than they receive in benefits, plenty of low wage earners receive more in subsidies than they pay in tax, some higher paid people get family support [ figure that one out ]
Net effect, 17 % of population pay tax

[mashman]

I'd be happiest if National said "fuck it, we'll do it too and flatten out the tax structure".

So I'd wager that the beloved National brains trust think it's a good tax, therefore the only argument they can come up with is anti-Labour slogans rather then anti-CGT.

According to Q+A on sunday morning, Labour offered National (can't remember the exact term) CGT as a "joint effort"... National turned them down. So they can't think it's a good idea at all... they'd rather sell everything first.