Will the USA default?

[Edbear]

It's not getting any better for them is it..?

http://www.3news.co.nz/Foreclosures-...8/Default.aspx

[Vacquer0]

This has been happening for a few years. What you don't see in the news is the decimated communities, broken homes and suicide statistics. If you seek the truth here you sure the fuck don't watch the news in the U.S. Happy every time I see someone paying attention.

[lakedaemonian]

Will the US default?

No.

Why?

Because it doesn't HAVE to.

It will simply continue to sh!t on it's creditors by paying bills with US Dollars that continue to decrease in value.....and the cost to the US for NOT defaulting and devaluing the dollar is that the US dollar will eventually lose it's status as THE global reserve currency...until then the US dollar is the flawed bit of paper the world uses and will continue to use.

We will eventually see the Yuan/Yen, Euro, and US Dollar as the globally dominant currencies.....but without one single currency running the show in terms of global exchange.

Gold will play a role in the transition...hence it's relentless increase in nominal US dollar value and why many central banks around the world hold gold reserves.

[oldrider]

It's not getting any better for them is it..?

http://www.3news.co.nz/Foreclosures-...8/Default.aspx

Our banks are just the same, the "them" of which you speak .... can just as easily be us!

It's really just a matter of time, not "if"!

And

lakedaemonian

Will the US default?

No.

Why?

Because it doesn't HAVE to.

It will simply continue to sh!t on it's creditors by paying bills with US Dollars that continue to decrease in value.....and the cost to the US for NOT defaulting and devaluing the dollar is that the US dollar will eventually lose it's status as THE global reserve currency...until then the US dollar is the flawed bit of paper the world uses and will continue to use.

We will eventually see the Yuan/Yen, Euro, and US Dollar as the globally dominant currencies.....but without one single currency running the show in terms of global exchange.

Gold will play a role in the transition...hence it's relentless increase in nominal US dollar value and why many central banks around the world hold gold reserves.

True! ...... This post #168 is correct!

[Edbear]

Our banks are just the same, the "them" of which you speak .... can just as easily be us!

It's really just a matter of time, not "if"!

And

lakedaemonian

Will the US default?

No.

Why?

Because it doesn't HAVE to.

It will simply continue to sh!t on it's creditors by paying bills with US Dollars that continue to decrease in value.....and the cost to the US for NOT defaulting and devaluing the dollar is that the US dollar will eventually lose it's status as THE global reserve currency...until then the US dollar is the flawed bit of paper the world uses and will continue to use.

We will eventually see the Yuan/Yen, Euro, and US Dollar as the globally dominant currencies.....but without one single currency running the show in terms of global exchange.

Gold will play a role in the transition...hence it's relentless increase in nominal US dollar value and why many central banks around the world hold gold reserves.

True! ...... This post #168 is correct!

The biggest difference is that over here the banks haven't been as reckless and greedy as to lend 120% the value of the property to those unable to afford it, so while there have been and will continue to be mortgagee sales, the losses to the banks are not significant enough to collapse them.

The logical and simple rule not to borrow more than you can comfortably afford to repay, and leaving a safety margin of surplus in your income has been ignored by most people around the world in either their greed or ignorance in a quest to "have it now!" The trouble with bubbles is that they inevitably burst and too many were riding the bubble of growth in reckless abandon including the banks and lending institutions, along with a number of governments around the world.

NZ and Aus have been to a large extent, much more responsible, but still affected by the rest of the world's woes, unfortunately.

[oldrider]

I found this a bit disturbing http://www.thecomingdepression.net/c...te-of-america/

The son of a friend is married to a daughter of one of these Chinese guy's.

Communism .... depending who you are, it's just another way to spell capitalism!

Will America default, see post #168 again.

[blue rider]

The biggest difference is that over here the banks haven't been as reckless and greedy as to lend 120% the value of the property to those unable to afford it, so while there have been and will continue to be mortgagee sales, the losses to the banks are not significant enough to collapse them.

The logical and simple rule not to borrow more than you can comfortably afford to repay, and leaving a safety margin of surplus in your income has been ignored by most people around the world in either their greed or ignorance in a quest to "have it now!" The trouble with bubbles is that they inevitably burst and too many were riding the bubble of growth in reckless abandon including the banks and lending institutions, along with a number of governments around the world.

NZ and Aus have been to a large extent, much more responsible, but still affected by the rest of the world's woes, unfortunately.

a good read on the mortgage crisis (USA)/financial crisis(USA and Europe) / and the worldwide banking hooligans

http://www.calculatedriskblog.com
http://www.nakedcapitalism.com
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com

by all means the USA has already defaulted, before the eyes of the world actually,
they have just delayed the crash by raising the Debt Ceiling - barely. However that debacle is going to start again in 2012, so stock up on popcorn, we are still in for a ride, and that coupled with the presidential elections, oh my......especially with the current crops of republican contenders .......all the entertainment one could want. The world be fucked, but at least we have had laugh.

Disclaimer: I do not believe that Obama is the best thing after sliced toast n butter. But compared to Michelle Bachman, Newt Grinrich, Rick Perry (oh the hair), and the other borgs....oh dear

As for the housing crisis here at home, if more people loose their jobs, or go part time, have wages that can't keep up with inflation and raising costs overall, we will see what is happening in the States.
People with jobs loosing their homes because the mortgage/service fees/rates etc can no longer be sustained.

and then there is always Europe........that's when the poo hits the fan....!

[oldrider]

From one of the sites in post by "blue rider" above! http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/...-humanity.html

He may well be right but he doesn't offer any kind of alternative, just someone to blame! (As Hitler, Stalin and the like have done before him!)

If he is right I would like to hear / read his alternative in the same simple terms as his condemnation!

"blue rider" are you able to locate and post such an explanation?

[blue rider]

From one of the sites in post by "blue rider" above! http://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2011/...-humanity.html

He may well be right but he doesn't offer any kind of alternative, just someone to blame! (As Hitler, Stalin and the like have done before him!)

If he is right I would like to hear / read his alternative in the same simple terms as his condemnation!

"blue rider" are you able to locate and post such an explanation?

one of the better answers for "credit default swaps" was formulated by "B" of a blog called "Moon of Alabama"
http://www.moonofalabama.org/2008/09...on-declar.html

another one would be to start regulating every day Joe/Jane Ordinarys banking:

a. regulate fees and charges that banks can charge their customers
b. cap interests charged on credits cards/loans, wtf 17.99% Ursury Yes/NO?
b. increase interest rates on savings
c. regulate the hand outs of credit cards - Students don't need credit cards!

- supposedly we are lending them our money trough deposits and banks use these funds to lend to others to start businesses etc.
However, it is now impossible to exists without a bank account, a credit history, and soon a credit rating. In the US already unemployed people with bad credit rating (doh....they are unemployed and might be behind bills - as they have no real benefits there) will not be employed because of it.

So without offering any service to us we are obliged to hand them our money - per our weekly pay or other income, as cash transactions - especially after 9/11- have been virtually outlawed. Yet we pay for the use of ATMs, Cheques, Card uses etc.
A large amount of profit in banking is not made by loaning and investing, but by charging fees. Any fee that you pay to have your money "managed" is not going into the economy, your mortgage or student loan. It goes to "Share Holder" value.

Make the mortage product again something that can be understood, long term, stop interest only mortgages, allow people to re-finance without being penalised etc.

I mean one can get penalized (i.e. charged a fee!) for wanting to pay back a loan early? WTF? The bank should be happy, as a paid loan is reduced risk.


A really good read is Paul Krugman, the man predicted the melt down in 2007 - 2008 , he actually got a Nobel Prize in Economics - go figure. (same on calculated risk, go to the Archives and find some posts of TANTA - she had the great gift of putting bank legalese in to english),

[blue rider]

as per credit default swaps,
Lets say the banks loans you some cash, and then runs a couple of bets of you defaulting on that loan? Well eventually it might just be more profitable for the bank if you can not pay back your loan.
So lets say some one starts a rumor, saying you are short in cash, you can not pay, and all your investors start panic selling.....and you run out of money and can not pay back your loan?
who wins, qui bono?
The bank that loaned you the cash, and then run a racket against you. They win the bet and you still owe them money. Bingo ain't life sweet.

That is legal, and called ethical banking.

another good read is Nouriel Robuini
http://www.economonitor.com/nouriel


this is it for me today and my amateur view on the very corrupt banking/finance industry.
The fact that our dear Leader Keys is precisely that - a banker/trader, just does inspire me with great confidence for the future. Yeah, Tui....again.

[Brian d marge]

Was going to do this big well thought out post of who to blame and why

Then I thought ,,,, Who cares ,,cant change it ,,,

Jesus boots , and What should we do from Prof Jane Kelsey's book;
Take economic fundamentalism seriously ..
* Nip it in the bud ..
* Be skeptical about fiscal and other "crises" ..
* Watch for the blitzkrieg ...
* Remember, the conservatives are not always the worst ..
* Take economics seriously ..
* Expose the illogic of their theory ..
* Evaluate the arguments carefully ..
* Challenge hypocrisy ..
* Expose 'stacking of the deck' .. ( I am not sure what this is )
* Maximize every political obstacle ..
* Maintain a strong civil society and popular sector ..
* Work hard to maintain solidarity ..
* Do not compromise the labour movement ..
* Employ the politics of political embarrasment ..
* Reinforce the concept of an independant public service ..
* Encourage community leaders to speak out ..
* Avoid anti-intellectualism ..
* Establish well-resourced critical think-tanks ..
* Develop alternative media outlets ..
* Raise the levels of popular economic literacy ..
* Educate popular and sectoral groups in advance ..
* Resist 'market-speak' ..
* Be realistic and avoid nostalgia ..
* Be pro-active and develop real alternatives ..
* Re-think identity and alliances ..

no debt and reduce your exposure to the economic wind ....

Aquaponics baby thats the future , perma culture .........go green

Sod JK

Stephen

ps the above is from a blog I wrote a while back

http://mustnt-grumble.blogspot.com/s...max-results=27

[oldrider]

Any political party or person that adheres to the current banking system is simply more of the same!

The world banking and monetary system is the common denominator that needs to change and be reformed!

[NighthawkNZ:Me]

Any political party or person that adheres to the current banking system is simply more of the same!

The world banking and monetary system is the common denominator that needs to change and be reformed!

Ah... for the love of money is the root of all evil...

[Edbear]

Ah... for the love of money is the root of all evil...

"...and by reaching out for this love, many have stabbed themselves all over with many pains!"

[Vacquer0]

Any political party or person that adheres to the current banking system is simply more of the same!

The world banking and monetary system is the common denominator that needs to change and be reformed!

You are correct, sir.