No Hone, you cannot speak

[Elysium]

At the end of the day Hone is still a complete clown.

[skinman]

The whole idea of having any group differentiated by race, be that maori, European, asian or any other is racism and should not be permitted. Therefore the maori seats should go, maori rugby team, school, any benefits that only maori get. Get the idea.
That Hone is an asshole & disrespected the whole parliamentary system that is paying him to be there. If you dont like the rules, dont play the game. That is not the way to change things.
Allegiance cannot be sworn to the treaty, its only a bit of paper. Allegiance can only be given to a person or organization.

Rant over

[oldrider]

Yeah . much as I hate to agree with you Pākehā ... he was elected - he knew the rules .. he needs to abide by them ... he did last time he was sworn in ...

He wouldn't get away with ignoring or disregarding kawa on a marae ... and he would insist people follow kawa ... this is a Pākehā kawa .. he should follow it ..

Pakeha kawa .... as agreed to in the treaty of Waitangi when they "all" (signatories that is) agreed to use "Westminster" protocol to govern this country?

I thought that is what I had read in the treaty but correct me if I am wrong please. (Long time ago!)

[Paul in NZ]

The sad thing about all of this is that ALL Kiwis are ready and I think in some cases want a strong, inspired Maori leadership that can build bridges and allow us to move forwards. I just cant see Hone doing this and its a darn shame.

[BoristheBiter]

The sad thing about all of this is that ALL Kiwis are ready and I think in some cases want a strong, inspired Maori leadership that can build bridges and allow us to move forwards. I just cant see Hone doing this and its a darn shame.

Yep, so are the rest of us.

Unfortunately he just wants to keep Maori in his area down (no other areas would vote for him, wrong tribe) and use the white man as the blame for this for if the did start to pull themselves up they would see what a complete cock he really is.

[Banditbandit]

Quote
Isn't this

I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira, swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Te Tiriti o Waitangi, that I will be honest and forthright in my efforts to advance the rights of the people of Tai Tokerau, that I will do my utmost to help all Maori people become full empowered citizens of this land and that I will do whatever I can to reduce inequalities in this country, so that all may one day be proud to call Aotearoa home.

better and more reflective of modern New Zealand than this?

I, Hone Pani Tamati Waka Nene Harawira swear that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.

That's the point Hone Harawira was trying to make today.
He was silenced, by an abuse of the Parliamentary process, by an old white man who disagrees. That man, Lockwood Smith, is stifling dissent, strangling our future and trying to suppress any debate over who we are and what it means to be a kiwi in modern New Zealand. And that is undemocratic and not befitting his role as Speaker of the House.

Ka tika tō kōrero ... engari ... I agree with most of what you say. I'm a Repblican through and through and I do nto believe he should swear allegiance to the queen of a rock on the other side of the world (that made my Pākehā tipuna refugees).

BUT ... that happens to be the legal oath of this country. He can make any stand he likes now ... and it will have no effect. He will be sworn in using the correct oath .. and I'll bet you he does nothing about changing the oath once is in in a position to make a difference. Several other Māori MPs have made the same stand at the time of swearing the oath .. and did they try to change the law after that? NO!

It's a bullshit token gesture ... they don't back it up with action ...

[Banditbandit]

Pakeha kawa .... as agreed to in the treaty of Waitangi when they "all" (signatories that is) agreed to use "Westminster" protocol to govern this country?

I thought that is what I had read in the treaty but correct me if I am wrong please. (Long time ago!)

Hmmm ... I don't think the treaty agrees to use Westminster protocols ... It certainly doesn't agree that New Zealand will have a democracy ... but that's a large part of the problem ... two contradictory versions of the treaty and too much room for interpretation.

[Bald Eagle]

... two contradictory versions of the treaty and too much room for interpretation.

So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ...

[imdying]

Yeah .. he has a point .. and I happen to agree with him. BUT he knows the rules of being an MP .. this was not the time and place to make a stand. He expects people on his turf to live by his rules (fair enough) .. he should therefore live by the rules of other people's turf if he wishes to interact on that turf ...

It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

[Banditbandit]

It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

Yeah yeah .. you know what I meant ...

[Bald Eagle]

... two contradictory versions of the treaty and too much room for interpretation.

So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ...

It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

... but which treaty ?

[Banditbandit]

So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ...

That's not such a funny idea .. I've thought that for a while ...

The problem is between who? As people here regularly point out there are no "pure" Maori any more. And I also believe there are more people of mixed heritage than people realise.

So deciding who belongs into which side of the negotiations is a massive problem ..

And is that actually the point? We are becoming Hobson's fictional-at-the-time One People .. it's just the growing pains of that process ...

The Celts were pretty pissed off at the Saxons and the Saxons were pretty pissed off at the Normans ... Now they are all Anglo-Saxons ... We will, eventually, and quite soon, basically become one people ... The discussion is just "On whose terms?"

That's what we need to talk about ..

[Banditbandit]

It's not other peoples turf, governance of the Maori people in their own country belongs to the Maori people, it's a right afforded to them by the treaty.

Actually, when you frame it that way I would have to agree - that's a statement of Tino Rangatiratanga .. but the reality has been Governance of us by the white Colonial Government - all the way to today's neo-colonial Government.

[dogsnbikes]

So maybe we need to negotiate a new treaty ...

With the chinese prehaps they have momey

As the NZFRU and NZleague have already negotiated with Fiji,Tonga,Samoa,Nuie,Cook Islands and Australia

[oldrider]

Actually, when you frame it that way I would have to agree - that's a statement of Tino Rangatiratanga .. but the reality has been Governance of us by the white Colonial Government - all the way to today's neo-colonial Government.

Bit like union members standing back and allowing people they don't like (or even agree with I.E. Poms!) to run their union!

Then moaning about it outside the meeting room but never ever actually doing anything about it!

Well that is the only thing that I have always said I like about the advent of MMP, albeit belatedly, Maori have now got off their moaning arse and are now "in" parliament actively contributing to running the country, the way they want it run!

OK, OK, so it's a somewhat stuttering start but at least they are doing it themselves, instead of leaving it to the Labour party to bullshit them that they can't do it on their own! (just like the pommy union reps do it)

Hone is just an opportunist that is trying to capitalise on Maori apathy before it is too late and he is also taking advantage of the plethora of assorted wankers that are currently available to back him into power I.E. the (background) Mana party members.

Hone is really just a terrorist in sheep's clothing but as I have said before, underestimate him, at your peril, he is no slug IMHO and he deserves to be respected as a dangerous adversary!

Actually Hone has a lot of attributes that I personally admire!

The problem with the current treaties is that neither "party" really understood it's meaning and as a result of that, coupled with there being "two" versions, multiple interpretations and expectations, "nobody can honour it" to the satisfaction of the others!

Until "Maori" (whoever they really are now?) stand up and represent themselves, there will only ever be a continuance of the status quo and who is ever going to get any benefit out of that?

If Hone is what it takes to get Maori activated and politicly motivated, so be it but so far for me it's the Maori party members that have demonstrated where the true "mana" exists.

This is simply my own opinion, (I am prepared to be corrected) based upon almost (October) 72 years of being part of this confusing and frustrating situation!