Who will win the 2011 election?

[shrub]

I'm no fan of Bennett, but it seems to me that money spent on encouraging young people to get a job and avoiding the whole beneficary lifestyle as a career is a good thing.

I agree entirely, but is that encouraging them to get a job or just telling them that they can't even manage their money and need to have that done for them? Would that $20m be better spent on setting up a mentoring scheme and giving those kids what they almost certainly have never had - someone who knows what they're doing teaching them how to make it in life?

[Oscar]

I agree entirely, but is that encouraging them to get a job or just telling them that they can't even manage their money and need to have that done for them? Would that $20m be better spent on setting up a mentoring scheme and giving those kids what they almost certainly have never had - someone who knows what they're doing teaching them how to make it in life?

Herindoors is a Secondary School DP and she sees third and fourth generations of welfare (particularly DPB). These kids are obviously getting no guidance from their parents (some of whom seem to think that the DPB is a reasonable career option), so perhaps spending money on what is obviously a generational problem is a good idea.

[shrub]

Herindoors is a Secondary School DP and she sees third and fourth generations of welfare (particularly DPB). These kids are obviously getting no guidance from their parents (some of whom seem to think that the DPB is a reasonable career option), so perhaps spending money on what is obviously a generational problem is a good idea.

I believe that nobody would choose a life on the benefit unless they either didn't know of anything different or didn't know how not to. FFS, you get paid survival money, you have no options, you are constantly being scrutinised, you have no status etc - why would you? But if all you know is the benefit and if all you believe yourself to be worth is the benefit the chances of breaking away are almost non-existent.

I reckon if you got half a dozen young people, taught them how to budget, get up at 06.30, keep clean, dress well and eat properly and do some excercise you'd have a start. If you had someone they could respect checking on them every day and helping them set goals and work towards them you would achieve a lot more than stopping them spending their dole on smokes. It would probably cost a little more (but not much) in the short term, but in the medium and long term would be a winner.

Only problem is National will never do it because these people are not National members and have no impact on them, so why should we actualy try and help them better themselves?

[SPman]

Those targeted are those on the Independent Youth Benefit. You get this benefit by being 16 or 17 years old and unable to live with your parents - which means they must either be dead, or physically or sexually abusive. In addition you must not be able to rely on anyone for support - meaning that you have no-one in the world to look out for you. In other words, National is going to be putting the boot into orphans and sexual abuse victims. Classy.
Obviously, these are desirable circumstances to be in, which is why the number of people on this benefit has been declining for years.
And the "solution"? They used up "stick 'em all in the army" last election (and it didn't work), so instead they're going for rather unpleasant paternalism, with bonus stigmatisation and humiliation. Apparently, having the government spend your money for you will teach you the value of budgeting. And apparently having to spend the pittance remaining after automatic deductions via a special card, while being sneered in the supermarket and having your privatised social worker going through the receipts and questioning how much toilet paper you're using will teach you to spend carefully. Instead, I think it will teach people the arbitrariness and cruelty of power, and provide a valuable grounding in basic money-laundering techniques.
This doesn't target a pressing social problem. We're not facing an explosion of IYB recipients, and I'm not seeing a lot of evidence that National's prejudices on their spending is true. Instead, this is being pushed solely to prop up National's support in an election year, by stigmatising and demonising and humiliating an already powerless group (who, as a bonus, can't even fucking vote). Its the ultimate triumph of spin over substance. And for the kids who will be victimised by this? Sorry, guys, National has an election to win.

And this will fix what ails the country??????? Yet more "policies" which are

cruel, vicious, divisive, and based on myths rather than evidence.

Distract the masses with a circus - kicking those at the bottom is always easy when you run out of ideas......

[Quasievil]

Distract the masses with a circus - kicking those at the bottom is always easy when you run out of ideas......

the only people getting Kicked are those that are paying the bill i.e the taxpayers

I think its an awesome idea, why they dont roll it out to the entire populous on the bennifit is crazy.
cards not cash = awesome !!

[oldrider]

More socialist state proposal's to save Kiwi's from themselves!

(The State can run you're life better than you can, trust them, say "NO" to personal responsibility and freedom to choose!)

Take your pick Red Labour/National or Blue National/Labour!

John Key ... what a guy .... Labour and National, all wrapped up in one package!

Spot the difference, ...... if there "really" is one! (The electorate hasn't realised it yet)

John Key poll's so well because he really placates both National and Labour supporters, he will win the election and during the next three years "some of them" will wake up and smell the coffee!

[Oscar]

(The State can run you're life better than you can, trust them, say "NO" to personal responsibility and freedom to choose!)

Bullshit.
If you don't want the state to run your life, get a fucking job.
The dole is not a job, a lifestyle or a career choice - it's taxpayers money.

[Indiana_Jones]

Bullshit.
If you don't want the state to run your life, get a fucking job.
The dole is not a job, a lifestyle or a career choice - it's taxpayers money.

+1

I hate people who go "oh don't bash the people on the benefit, it's not their fault!"

In a lot of instances, that is true, they don't wanna be on the dole, but they suck it up, find a job and get back to normal.

But there are some out there that see it as their bloody birth right and see it as pocket money to blow on piss, fags and 20" chromies for their shit box car....and if there's any left after that, consider buying the kids a packet of chips to shut them up.

I like a pint as much as the next cunt, difference is I earn it.

-Indy

[Quasievil]

Bullshit.
If you don't want the state to run your life, get a fucking job.
The dole is not a job, a lifestyle or a career choice - it's taxpayers money.

+ 2 Absolutely
make the dole as diffulcult as possible, its a safety net not a career option.

[shrub]

More socialist state proposal's to save Kiwi's from themselves!

(The State can run you're life better than you can, trust them, say "NO" to personal responsibility and freedom to choose!)

Take your pick Red Labour/National or Blue National/Labour!

John Key ... what a guy .... Labour and National, all wrapped up in one package!

Spot the difference, ...... if there "really" is one! (The electorate hasn't realised it yet)

John Key poll's so well because he really placates both National and Labour supporters, he will win the election and during the next three years "some of them" will wake up and smell the coffee!

But as you can see from the following comments his utterly pointless and stupidly expensive idea has got the muppets slathering with delight, and that's the whole reason behind it. Does anyone actually believe this will do one ounce of good or that Key and the Nats really care about the 2600 people affected? The only reason they have done it is because their supporters will nod sagely and say "finally Someone Is Doing Something About It" or "about time they Got Tough On Beneficiaries".

Beneficiaries are vital to the Nats because they have no economic or political power but can be kicked around and made into folk devils because it's decent, hardworking people like Quasi that are being bled dry by them. Make An Example of them, and you have won their support regardless of how idiotic your policies.

It amuses me watching the puppetmasters pull the strings and making the muppets dance to music they cannot even hear.

[Swoop]

regardless of how idiotic your policies.

Speaking of which... (you still haven't answered my question)
Are you standing for an electorate seat or a party list seat at the upcoming election?

[shrub]

Speaking of which... (you still haven't answered my question)
Are you standing for an electorate seat or a party list seat at the upcoming election?

Nope. I have considered it, and the chance to influence change is appealling, but I have too many other commitments. Besides, I know how hard pollys who take it seriously work and I am waaaay too old and lazy for that shit. After years of hard work I am lucky enough to have got myself in the position where I can work 2 or 3 days a week and earn plenty to do everything I want to do, and I'm not ready to give that up yet.

Anyway, pollys live in a fishbowl and I like to do things like ride motorbikes fast, drink too much etc. Can you imagine the delight of the media if an MP got pinged for speeding on a bike or was spotted in a bar or at a rally pissing up? And I have done a few things in my distant past that I would rather stayed there because they have no bearing on my life right now but would cause great delight to the rednecks and be a very irritating distraction.

[SPman]

It amuses me watching the puppetmasters pull the strings and making the muppets dance to music they cannot even hear.

It's great fun, isn't it! Then throw in a few "Lefty bleeding heart" statements and watch them dance.........

[shrub]

It's great fun, isn't it! Then throw in a few "Lefty bleeding heart" statements and watch them dance.........

And the best part is they don't even know who the puppet master is.

[mashman]

I hate people who go "oh don't bash the people on the benefit, it's not their fault!"

In a lot of instances, that is true, they don't wanna be on the dole, but they suck it up, find a job and get back to normal.

But there are some out there that see it as their bloody birth right and see it as pocket money to blow on piss, fags and 20" chromies for their shit box car....and if there's any left after that, consider buying the kids a packet of chips to shut them up.

I like a pint as much as the next cunt, difference is I earn it.

they probably hate you too... for being such a rich cnut that is...

You do remember that a certain % of the population are required to be unemployed to help control inflation? You should be giving them more money so they can buy more piss, fags etc... not less encouraging then to head out and top up their income in some other way... or does that not compute? or is that not Right?

Oh, and whilst you're at it. Cut the "charitable donation" tax incentives... why give someone a third of their money back when they voluntarily donated to charity? I see ARSEFECKERY!