Who will win the 2011 election?

[cowpoos]

Actually I did. I countered every argument you raised, but unfortunately for you I didn't give the answer you wanted (or understood) and...

no you didn't...you only answered to the question you wanted me to ask. lmao!!!

you admit are only willing to debate with people you agree with which probably explains why you are so naive and ill informed - the perfect muppet.

go read it again...lol


and by the way....name calling doesn't make you win and argument....but what it does do...is remove all doubt, too those that may have be on the fence about your supposed opinions...no clever really, is it lad.

[puddytat]

Whatever happens I reckon, we'll be sold down the line one way or the other.There'll still be a Free For All agreement with whoever ....& we'll end up owning less.
And owing more.


Right, back to the playroom

[98tls]

Out of interest is there anyone campaigning with the the "we will stop the buying smokes for those that otherwise couldnt afford them" or as its known "working for familes",if so they will get my vote.

[Ocean1]

I have read strong arguments to shift them down to 25% and to follow the model used a lot overseas of allowing a company's first year's trading to be tax free (with conditions).

I'd be happy if they simply refrained from demanding the first years tax AND the next three months worth on about the business’s first anniversary. Now. Or else. Fuck me you’d think new business was something to be discouraged with extreme prejudice.

While we’re at it, why is it that when I spend half a squillion dollars on some really clever kit the bastards still want the tax paid on the money I used to buy it? So if you survive the first 18 months, build a wee bit of a reserve up and want to invest that in ways to make your business grow they’re there to fuck that up too.

‘Course the clever dickie financial wizards reckon I’ve got it all wrong, I orta have BORROWED all that capital, so’s I could claim the interest as a loss. Trouble is I’m not in business to make a loss...

[Clockwork]

Out of interest is there anyone campaigning with the the "we will stop the buying smokes for those that otherwise couldnt afford them" or as its known "working for familes",if so they will get my vote.

As Corney as it sounds, children are any nations future, Bud. If only families that could comfortably afford children were to have them, this nations population would quickly decline and there would be no one left to wipe our arses for us in our dotage.

The more worrying fact is it appears that the average worker can no longer afford to support a family without assistance!!

[98tls]

As Corney as it sounds, children are any nations future, Bud. If only families that could comfortably afford children were to have them, this nations population would quickly decline and there would be no one left to wipe our arses for us in our dotage.

The more worrying fact is it appears that the average worker can no longer afford to support a family without assistance!!

Mate i agree entirely with the 1st bit the second not,i sit and listen to the whining come smoko time from some with kids about cant afford this that and the other thing whilst eating there smoko bought from a bakery after which they sit there moan some more whilst puffing on the tailor made fag,there probably still moaning as they drive home in there XR8 bought on tick,which part of the working for families is actually being spent on there kids?

[Clockwork]

Fair enough, I have no first hand experience of it and there may well be a case for re-examining how much and who needs to be paid nut I still think the principal is sound enough.

Likewise Id bet that without the support these people you talk of would still have the smokes, cars and nice foods..... just not kids.

But then we still be short of people to wipe our arses later!.

[rainman]

why is it that when I spend half a squillion dollars on some really clever kit the bastards still want the tax paid on the money I used to buy it?

Although to be fair you then claim the depreciation over time so it's a wash, over time. My advice would be to invest in new capital equipment carefully at the start of a new business. Or find cleverer funding solutions.

However, back to elections...

[SPman]

...........
However, back to elections...

Must we.........lifes depressing enough as it is.........

[Ocean1]

Although to be fair you then claim the depreciation over time so it's a wash, over time.

To be fair you'd ask "how much more money have you got this year than you had last year" and you'd tax that. Any other measure of income is bullshit, what's more it's bullshit that penalises investment in business, and all so the government can have their pound of flesh early.

[Clockwork]

This is probably one of my biggest concerns about tax..... the fact the it always seems that the Government is trying to get its hands on it too early. Company Provisional Tax, the taxes on Unit Share values (even though they havn't yet been sold and so any value increase in only notional).

Even the fact that they pre-tax the money that you put into a super scheme and then tax its earnings throughout its term. I'd have thought the fairest way would be to let the savings go in and accure tax free, then tax the repayments on maturity. Imagine how much more money would have been invested by these funds now if that had been the regime

[rainman]

To be fair you'd ask "how much more money have you got this year than you had last year" and you'd tax that. Any other measure of income is bullshit, what's more it's bullshit that penalises investment in business, and all so the government can have their pound of flesh early.

I see your point, but business is short-term-focused enough as it is; a purely cash basis for accounting would be more problematic, not less. How would you deal with depreciation? And how would your scheme work for farmers, who grow things that acquire value over time but only sell at specific times? Things like depreciation, taxing at one of the various livestock valuation schemes, and provisional tax spread the impact over time. You'd have to have massive overdraft limits in most businesses to only work on straight cash.

And the bank would have to trust you not to spend up large when you're flush. I wouldn't expect a high success rate with this short term. Maybe in time a new operating culture would emerge, but initially I'd expect your scheme would cause more businesses to fail, not fewer.

[Ocean1]

I see your point, but business is short-term-focused enough as it is; a purely cash basis for accounting would be more problematic, not less. How would you deal with depreciation? .

It's based on a flawed premis in the first place. Why on earth should you tax capital investment? it just ties a millstone around every productive manufactuary in the country.

Let 'em spend ALL of their hard earned improving their business, you'll reap the benefits in revenue from improvements in genuine income tax down the track.

[rainman]

It's based on a flawed premis in the first place. Why on earth should you tax capital investment? it just ties a millstone around every productive manufactuary in the country.

Let 'em spend ALL of their hard earned improving their business, you'll reap the benefits in revenue from improvements in genuine income tax down the track.

Creates a bit of an anomaly though: you pay tax on the income earned by your business, and you incur costs in operating it. (Depreciation is just a means of spreading large costs over their useful life). If you want to make some of those costs tax-free then all you are really arguing is for giving business a further tax cut because it will increase growth, which is magical thinking that has been discussed to death here before.

How would you want to treat a farmer buying a bunch of livestock? Productive business investment, or trading stock?

And what does this have to do with elections?

[Ocean1]

If you want to make some of those costs tax-free then all you are really arguing is for giving business a further tax cut because it will increase growth, which is magical thinking that has been discussed to death here before.

It's a fucking COST. Y'know: not income. Tax free? why the fuck should you pay tax on income you never made?