Who will win the 2011 election?

[puddytat]

[QUOTE=mashman;1130162008]sooo today, what's on the political menu:

Some form of sense from Mana if the figures he quotes are correct

thees linky no worky Honky ....

(it'll be the the SIS)

[mashman]

[QUOTE=puddytat;1130162533]

sooo today, what's on the political menu:

Some form of sense from Mana if the figures he quotes are correct

thees linky no worky Honky ....

(it'll be the the SIS)

same linky, should worky

[puddytat]

Awww cheers Bro,pretty fly for a white guy

Could it be that simple?


Hey how come your nom de plume has a small white crosshair next to it in the other users browsing box?

[mashman]

Awww cheers Bro,pretty fly for a white guy

Could it be that simple?


Hey how come your nom de plume has a small white crosshair next to it in the other users browsing box?

coz we're fwiends... or they're targets and we're fucked

[mashman]

ha ha ha haaaaaaaa... Young people not signing up to vote... you have to enrol, if you don't enrol we'll fine you. Why should anyone enrol if they aren't going to vote? aye, we're living in a democratically run free society alright... where you are forced to register. I hope they get a resounding fuck off from the young people... once they've hunted them down so that they can fine them that is

[puddytat]

Well on the News the Greens are polling at 10%,a high for them.
Was also good to see Norman & Jones with some fellas who were showing them their Electric motorbikes which looked great,anyone know who they were?

Politic wise, Duncan Garner pointed out some interesting stats from the polls which showed that the majority of those polled from both the Greens & Nats supported the 2 parties working together.....63% of Nats,58% from the Greens
The 2 leaders thought otherwise.....

[rainman]

Well if this election was judged on the quality of the campaign opening videos National would be packing it's bags. What a fucking horrible boring lecture with Key looking like a reanimated corpse.

And 10/10 to Labour for a great video. Greens a close-ish second.

[oldrider]

Well if this election was judged on the quality of the campaign opening videos National would be packing it's bags. What a fucking horrible boring lecture with Key looking like a reanimated corpse.

And 10/10 to Labour for a great video. Greens a close-ish second.

Rose coloured spectacles and all .... as if you were looking for something positive in John Key and National ... were you disappointed then?

[rainman]

Rose coloured spectacles and all .... as if you were looking for something positive in John Key and National ... were you disappointed then?

That's a bit unfair, you should know by now I'm no ideologue. I'm not even a Labour voter as a general thing (although it is crossing my mind for this time tbh). I was simply making the observation that Labour had a cracker of a campaign video tightly linked to their values, and with a very solid, Kiwi-as feel and a good team performance. National's had Key looking like a reanimated corpse with a bored audience, and wasn't even on the party site but rather Key's - says it all. I hate celebrity politics. The Greens, my "traditional" party were a bit off the boil but not horrible. Haven't seen the other smaller parties yet except those moonbats, um, Act - and that had Banks and Brash in so I felt a wee bit unwell as a result. Quite normal, considering.

In normal circumstances (closeish race between National/Labour, no major policy threats like asset sales, easier economic and environmental conditions), I'd be one tick green and one tick anyone but McCully, but not too fussed about who wins the main race as long as the Greens got a good show. This time I absolutely do not want another term of the Nats and Key because they will fuck the country up good and proper. They're also just not very good at the job.

Did you see the campaign openings, and did you think National's was any good? If so, why?

[oldrider]

Did you see the campaign openings, and did you think National's was any good? If so, why?

No I didn't.

My only real incentive to go to a polling booth this election is to participate in the referendum on the voting system!

FPP should not be an option, that was voted out and should not be included as an option. My opinion only of course.

STV is still my preference because I think it makes the candidate more accountable or concious of the needs of the electorate.

The downside is that we will still get a coalition which gives the elected members a reason to cosy up to each other rather than to the electorate!

STV should be less of a lucky dip government than we get with MMP which really results in Clayton's governments that nobody really wanted! (or even knew about)

Politicians need to be accountable and responsible to the people that elect them rather than to each other! IMO! MMP does not support this!

So far my electorate vote looks destined to go to Jacqui Dean who just happens to be a National candidate, don't know yet where my party vote will be going!

MMP stinks in my opinion!

National and Labour are another Clayton's coalition IMO because despite screaming opposite "policies" eventually everything they do ends up the same!

It's just that the electorate believes their bullshit that they are different .... any colour you like, as long as it is still red and blue in the end!

[rainman]

My only real incentive to go to a polling booth this election is to participate in the referendum on the voting system!

FPP should not be an option, that was voted out and should not be included as an option. My opinion only of course.

STV is still my preference because I think it makes the candidate more accountable or concious of the needs of the electorate.
...

So far my electorate vote looks destined to go to Jacqui Dean who just happens to be a National candidate, don't know yet where my party vote will be going!

I quite like STV too but it's often written off as too complicated for people to understand. An alternative would be a modified MMP that addresses some of the obvious problems with it. Agree FPP is out. I suspect this referendum will be MMP vs FPP in drag, though.

I had a look at your electorate choices and you may have a point! I still think party vote Nat would be suicidal though.

[shrub]

This time I absolutely do not want another term of the Nats and Key because they will fuck the country up good and proper. They're also just not very good at the job.

I agree, I genuinely had high expectations of the current government in 08, but all they have done in the last 3 years is a cut funding to government departments, few flaccid tax cuts, raise GST and make Auckland a super city. Their only answers to creating a brighter future are to partially privatise the few assets left in state hands and lay off civil servants - can we really afford them, no matter how nice a chap John is?

BTW anyone who has ever had to deal with a government department and been frustrated with poor service has experienced what happens when you cut their resources. As a fiscal strategy it only works when a civil service has been allowed to grow beyond need. The NZ civil service grew under Labour because it had been stripped back under National and was unable to deliver the services it is required to and was probably only just at the level required for a society like ours to function effectively.

Sadly NZ is probably fairly fucked now, and another 3 years of Key and his clowns will bring us to the point where I doubt many of us are young enough to see things ever come right.

[MisterD]

I agree, I genuinely had high expectations of the current government in 08, but all they have done in the last 3 years is a cut funding to government departments, few flaccid tax cuts, raise GST and make Auckland a super city. Their only answers to creating a brighter future are to partially privatise the few assets left in state hands and lay off civil servants - can we really afford them, no matter how nice a chap John is?

BTW anyone who has ever had to deal with a government department and been frustrated with poor service has experienced what happens when you cut their resources. As a fiscal strategy it only works when a civil service has been allowed to grow beyond need. The NZ civil service grew under Labour because it had been stripped back under National and was unable to deliver the services it is required to and was probably only just at the level required for a society like ours to function effectively.

Sadly NZ is probably fairly fucked now, and another 3 years of Key and his clowns will bring us to the point where I doubt many of us are young enough to see things ever come right.

The civil service balooned under labour becuase it's the old money-go-round: More civil servants = more PSA members = more money back to the Labour Party. I guess you missed the bit (as one example) where elective surgery numbers are continuing to rise?

Do you think that the asset mix that the government owns at the moment is perfect? What would you say if the country was to sell stakes in assets now, get debt down and then at a future point in time buy a significant holding in Chorus (I'll bet anything you like the next Labour Govt in 2017 does just that)? The Labour / Green "No Asset Sales" line is as trite and idiotic as "No GST on Fresh veg (but you'll still pay it on frozen peas)".

The biggest problem we have right now is our major markets in the US and Europe playing "Who can debase their currency the most" and no government we elect has any control over that.

[shrub]

The civil service balooned under labour becuase it's the old money-go-round: More civil servants = more PSA members = more money back to the Labour Party. I guess you missed the bit (as one example) where elective surgery numbers are continuing to rise?

Ah, the conspiracy theorists are back with silly arguments. Here's one for you: Librarians are frequently members of the PSA and vote Labour, therefore the more librarians the better for Labour. Educated people are statistically more likely to use libraries, and the interest free student loans were a strategy to get more people in education and using libraries, therefore there would be more librarians and more Labour supporters.

Has it ever dawned on you that a highly developed western society requires substantial infrastructure to function? And that infrastructure requires skilled people to operate it? Or are you so caught up in the spin?

Do you think that the asset mix that the government owns at the moment is perfect? What would you say if the country was to sell stakes in assets now, get debt down and then at a future point in time buy a significant holding in Chorus (I'll bet anything you like the next Labour Govt in 2017 does just that)?

No, the current asset mix is not perfect, but a key component is energy companies that are highly profitable and critical to business. And when you consider that energy prices are rising rapidly (and will continue to do so) because global demand for energy, especially clean energy, is beginning to go through the roof it seems silly to sell those assets now. Kind of like selling Microsoft shares just before Windows 95 was launched.

The Labour / Green "No Asset Sales" line is as trite and idiotic as "No GST on Fresh veg (but you'll still pay it on frozen peas)".

Wrong. No asset sales just makes good long term economic sense, especially when you look at the assets that will be sold. The only problem is that based on the last 3 years National do not have a long term view and certainly don't have any ideas to deal with the current economic crisis.

The biggest problem we have right now is our major markets in the US and Europe playing "Who can debase their currency the most" and no government we elect has any control over that.

Wrong again. Personally I don't like the idea of being a victim of circumstance, and the problems we are all about to experience can be managed by some simple strategies: Diversify exports, increase productivity, decrease private debt, increase the tax take by a CGT, increase the savings pool which in turn provides capital for investment in business. Only problem is none of those are election winners, so none of them will ever be done.

[SPman]

the country was to sell stakes in assets now, get debt down

But - ShonKey has said he wants to use the assett sales to pay for things like education...! Basic core government spending that should come out of taxation.....sort of like selling your car to pay for the weeks groceries......