Who will win the 2011 election?

[SPman]

Yeah, but the thing is in most western countries 95% of people don't vote for one of the main two parties, they vote against the other one

...and as long as you get that mentality, we'll keep on getting the sorts of governments we do......

[MisterD]

...and as long as you get that mentality, we'll keep on getting the sorts of governments we do......

Which is why I favour local primary elections and preferential voting.

[slofox]

... Ducatilover gets a babe a week rule.

Is that kinda like a virgin sacrifice, is it?

[mashman]

You didn't read my fine print that I may or may not have posted at some previous moment to this one.
All winnings must be turned to beer, which will be shared

ha ha haaaaaaaa, my fault, I didn't look ... I'm more than comfortable with that... although we better up it to $50 as I'll be fucked if I'm gonna drink a mere $5 of beer...

[ducatilover]

Is that kinda like a virgin sacrifice, is it?

I suppose, I have yet to discover what these women things like to do, so I'll have plenty on my hands (entendre intended)

ha ha haaaaaaaa, my fault, I didn't look ... I'm more than comfortable with that... although we better up it to $50 as I'll be fucked if I'm gonna drink a mere $5 of beer...

It's on!

[Robert Taylor]

Finding someone to argue that Kirk et al did a good job with the economy is about as hard as finding someone who genuinely believes Key won't win on Saturday. They came in at the tail end of the most golden of golden eras and were ill prepared for the sudden shock as the world grew up. However in their favour, if their compulsory super hadn't been canned by Muldoon we would be a much wealthier country today. Probably as rich as Aussie - everyone thinks Aussie is richer than us because they have minerals. They're rich because they have over $1 trillion in savings whereas we have the Cullen fund and not a lot more.

And you're clutching at straws. Just because some (or even most) of the billboard enhancers belonged to the Greens does not mean the Green party had any involvement or even any idea. Their campaign is going very, very well and has been micro managed, so supporting something that pointless and potentially damaging makes about as much sense as Casey Stoner fitting touring panniers to his race bike.

I agree with you about that super fund.

[Murray]

May have been posted elsewhere but so be it

The ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER This one is a little different ........Two Different Versions .....
There are Different Morals

OLD VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.
The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:
Be responsible for yourself!

MODERN VERSION:The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.
TV1,2 & 3 News, and Campbell Live show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
The country is stunned by the sharp contrast.
How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Sue Bradford appears on Campbell Live with the grasshopper and everybody cries .
The Green Party stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, We shall overcome.
Green Party Leader Metiriea Turei condemns the ant and blames John Key , Rob Muldoon , Roger Douglas , Capitalism and Global warming for the grasshopper's plight.
John Minto exclaims in an interview with TV News that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally to gain votes to win an election , the Government drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to consider how his hard work and preparation has affected the Grasshoppers Mana and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated under the Government Land Repo Act and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government confiscates the house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant’s old house, which crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared to Australia, never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a Drugs related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of Homeboy spiders who terrorize the once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY:
Be careful how you vote in 2011

[oneofsix]

May have been posted elsewhere but so be it

The ANT AND THE GRASSHOPPER This one is a little different ........Two Different Versions .....
There are Different Morals

OLD VERSION:
The ant works hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.

The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the ant is warm and well fed.
The grasshopper has no food or shelter, so he dies out in the cold.

MORAL OF THE OLD STORY:
Be responsible for yourself!

MODERN VERSION:The ant works hard in the withering heat and the rain all summer long, building his house and laying up supplies for the winter.
The grasshopper thinks the ant is a fool and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.
Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while he is cold and starving.
TV1,2 & 3 News, and Campbell Live show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.
The country is stunned by the sharp contrast.
How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so?
Sue Bradford appears on Campbell Live with the grasshopper and everybody cries .
The Green Party stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house where the news stations film the group singing, We shall overcome.
Green Party Leader Metiriea Turei condemns the ant and blames John Key , Rob Muldoon , Roger Douglas , Capitalism and Global warming for the grasshopper's plight.
John Minto exclaims in an interview with TV News that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper, and both call for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his fair share.

Finally to gain votes to win an election , the Government drafts the Economic Equity & Anti-Grasshopper Act retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to consider how his hard work and preparation has affected the Grasshoppers Mana and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated under the Government Land Repo Act and given to the grasshopper.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper and his free-loading friends finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government confiscates the house he is in, which, as you recall, just happens to be the ant’s old house, which crumbles around them because the grasshopper doesn't maintain it.

The ant has disappeared to Australia, never to be seen again.

The grasshopper is found dead in a Drugs related incident, and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of Homeboy spiders who terrorize the once prosperous and peaceful, neighborhood.

MORAL OF THE STORY:
Be careful how you vote in 2011

That's the pre 1980s story. These days the grasshopper is a banker, lawyer or corporate business man, and claims copywrite on the ants goods whilst telling the ant that if he works harder he too can be rich. The ant fuks off to Oz where the unions still insure he gets a fair wage, health care and university for his kids.

[Indiana_Jones]

The ant fuks off to Oz where the unions still insure he gets a fair wage, health care and university for his kids.

Those unions worked a treat in the UK

-Indy

[Robert Taylor]

Those unions worked a treat in the UK

-Indy

Yeah, is that why James Callaghan had to go cap in hand to the IMF?

[Winston001]

Envy is not involved in my complaint, nor is some neo-Marxist redistribution narrative, 'cos that doesn't work for long. I'd like us to fix the problems properly.

Who among us seriously thinks we can just keep letting the rich get richer, though?

My knee-jerk response is to say "No, of course not".

And yet...is this really a problem? Is it so terrible that some people are very wealthy? The 1% who allegedly hold vast riches still only hold 16.4% of New Zealand's total wealth. That means 84% is held by the rest of us. To be honest it doesn't seem so terrible to me.

Moreover in Australia the land of golden opportunity, the amount of wealth held by a few is even greater. Nevertheless Australians on average are much better off than average New Zealanders. Both in terms of assets and lower cost of living.

I think its more useful to look at the broad welbeing of a society and wide wealth distribution is a positive indicator. On that scale, NZ isn't a bad place.

[Winston001]

A further thought on this wealth/rich thing:

There is a view that one generation makes it, the next consolidates it,....and the grandchildren spend it. From 30 odd years of professional advising, I'd have to say this is true. Some economists would say its a failing of NZ society. In Germany, Britain, France, USA etc there are families which have successfully run businesses and provided wide employment for 200 years. Stability and certainty. Not words generally used for NZ business.

[Ocean1]

There is a view that one generation makes it, the next consolidates it,....and the grandchildren spend it.

I don't think it's that complicated. It's just a mechanism of the old saw "easy come, easy go".

Those Families that manage to retain wealth through several generations seem to instill some respect for, or at least recognition of the effort required to achieve it.

I understand one such will underwrite a new generation's activities to the tune of 10 times their individual net worth... after that reaches $1M. If they have the ability to make that first $1M it's taken as read they know the rules.

[SPman]

And yet...is this really a problem? Is it so terrible that some people are very wealthy? The 1% who allegedly hold vast riches still only hold 16.4% of New Zealand's total wealth. That means 84% is held by the rest of us. To be honest it doesn't seem so terrible to me.

In most ways, it's not really a problem until those with the money start using it to influence politics (the same could be said for religion). Taken to extremes, you get the situation in the US where the Supreme Court says money is speech and corporations are people and ended all limits on political spending. Millions of dollars are being funneled to politicians without a trace. This enabling of big money to effectively buy and run the government is a major factor behind the OWS movement. At it's extreme, as in the US, 90% of politicians are running to the tune of big money, Banks, Corporations and multi-billionaires - no one else gets a look in.

NZ is nowhere near this criminal state of affairs, even though there are definite attempts at political manipulation by "wealthy lobby groups". Most of the NZ wealthy are not mega wealthy in a world sense and the enough have worked their way to where they are to still have a tad of the "egalitarian ethic" buried under their skin. But, there are blatant and not so blatant attempts to heavily influence politicians to "see things their way", and it is up to the voters to keep on top of these financial coup attempts. It seems to mainly involve those who are aware of shady dealings screaming from the rooftops, because corruption thrives best in secret! Unfortunately, a lot of NZ'ers don't like the noise and would prefer to believe the best in people - even if those they place their trust in kick them in the face.

I think its more useful to look at the broad well being of a society and wide wealth distribution is a positive indicator. On that scale, NZ isn't a bad place.

No, but, as the report card says "could do better", and in the past, has been much better.

[Robert Taylor]

In most ways, it's not really a problem until those with the money start using it to influence politics (the same could be said for religion). Taken to extremes, you get the situation in the US where the Supreme Court says money is speech and corporations are people and ended all limits on political spending. Millions of dollars are being funneled to politicians without a trace. This enabling of big money to effectively buy and run the government is a major factor behind the OWS movement. At it's extreme, as in the US, 90% of politicians are running to the tune of big money, Banks, Corporations and multi-billionaires - no one else gets a look in.

NZ is nowhere near this criminal state of affairs, even though there are definite attempts at political manipulation by "wealthy lobby groups". Most of the NZ wealthy are not mega wealthy in a world sense and the enough have worked their way to where they are to still have a tad of the "egalitarian ethic" buried under their skin. But, there are blatant and not so blatant attempts to heavily influence politicians to "see things their way", and it is up to the voters to keep on top of these financial coup attempts. It seems to mainly involve those who are aware of shady dealings screaming from the rooftops, because corruption thrives best in secret! Unfortunately, a lot of NZ'ers don't like the noise and would prefer to believe the best in people - even if those they place their trust in kick them in the face.

No, but, as the report card says "could do better", and in the past, has been much better.

As a small businessman I wrote a cheque out 3 weeks ago to the National party, $100. If I was a multi national that would be like ten million dollars. So on the scale of things I am clearly corrupt........................