Cyclist queries worth of high-visibility clothing

**gwigs** · 27th July 2011, 08:02

A Wellington teenager who has twice been hit by a car while biking to school in high-visibility clothing says the gear does little to keep cyclists safe.

Ryan Crossman, 16, said he did not think high-visibility gear was "dorky" but doubted many of his Wellington High School classmates would wear it even if it was mandatory.

His comments come as coroner Gordon Matenga travels around New Zealand to hear evidence on the deaths of eight cyclists – five of whom died within days of each other.

On the first day of the inquest last week, Cycling Advocates Network spokesman Patrick Morgan told Mr Matenga that making high-visibility gear mandatory could put people off cycling altogether because of a perception that the gear looked "dorky".

He said drivers had to look out for other cars, pedestrians and obstructions, which are not fluorescent, and making cyclists wear high-visibility clothing shifted the onus for avoiding a crash on to them.

Ryan said wearing high-visibility cycle clothing was no guarantee you would avoid an accident – as he found out first hand.

According to his mother, Beverly Crossman, he was "off school for a couple of days because he could hardly walk" on his badly bruised knee, after a car turned into him at the intersection of Riddiford and Mein streets in February last year.

Mrs Crossman said the driver did not see Ryan – who was wearing a large, yellow reflective vest – because of sunstrike.

Ryan was knocked off his bike again two weeks ago by a driver who opened the door of a parked van into his path, Mrs Crossman said.

"If you wear the high-vis, it doesn't necessarily mean you're safe because the driver has to look to see you. If they don't look, you're going to get hit anyway," Mrs Crossman said.

"Drivers seem to think they own the road. My son and my partner go out cycling all the time and it's amazing the times they come home and say they almost got hit, and they both wear high-vis all the time."

Mrs Crossman said driver attitudes towards cyclists needed to change. Ryan said more education about cycle safety at high-school level could help because the only time he had been taught how to stay safe on a bike was at primary school.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/5344...ility-clothing

**willytheekid** · 27th July 2011, 08:26

"because the only time he had been taught how to stay safe on a bike was at primary school"

Theres the problem right there!....well...that!...AND spandex!!

**oneofsix** · 27th July 2011, 08:32

Originally Posted by willytheekid

"because the only time he had been taught how to stay safe on a bike was at primary school"

Theres the problem right there!....well...that!...AND spandex!!

nicely taken out of context. I feel he makes it rather obvious 'taught' refers to formal/school system education as opposed to learning. The article also says he rides with his mother's partner (doesn't make it clear that this partner is his dad so i wont assume that)

**slofox** · 27th July 2011, 08:43

"If they don't look, you're going to get hit "

THAT'S the problem, I think...

**oneofsix** · 27th July 2011, 08:50

Originally Posted by slofox

"If they don't look, you're going to get hit "

THAT'S the problem, I think...

A problem shared by all uses of our roads. Those in cages have the advantage that they themselves not necessarily get hit, it might only damage their cage, whilst most of the rest of us suffer the pain on a personal level.

One thing that concerned me was the comment

and making cyclists wear high-visibility clothing shifted the onus for avoiding a crash on to them.

I would have thought that cyclist, like us, have the onus on them due to the personal level of painful involvement.

**slofox** · 27th July 2011, 10:53

Originally Posted by oneofsix

One thing that concerned me was the comment I would have thought that cyclist, like us, have the onus on them due to the personal level of painful involvement.

Absolutely correct. I find myself in Katman's camp on this one - we need to look after ourselves - sure as hell nobody else will.

**gunnyrob** · 27th July 2011, 13:20

I've done a big safety campaign with cyclists at work. Hi-viz is only part of it. The bikes that stood out had rapidly flashing LED lights, and a couple manged to sneak in some with modulators from the states. Those puppies looked like miniature suns sitting on the handlebars.

Sooner we can get them (modulators) authorised for motorbikes the better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNe5-G9q8QM

It still boils down to the fact that unless you ride defensively, chances are you'll be a SMIDSY

**scumdog** · 27th July 2011, 18:05

And you rarely hear of anybody posting "Oh yeah, lucky he was wearing that day-glo stuff cos he stood out because of it and didn't pull out on front of him/cut him off". do you..

**James Deuce** · 27th July 2011, 18:17

Someone buy that kid a motorcycle. He's a biker.

**oldrider** · 28th July 2011, 09:14

If any obstruction is on the drivers side of the road "they" must take action to avoid hitting it!

That does not mean swinging out onto the other side of the road into the face of oncoming traffic!

How many times have you been forced to take evasive action because of oncoming drivers doing this?

I think it is because too many drivers think they are watching TV and if it gets uncomfortable, all they have to do is change the channel.

Drivers don't seem to believe that "they" have the responsibility to give way or even stop if necessary, not just swerve around or bounce off the obstruction!

FFS!

**Bounce001** · 28th July 2011, 12:23

Originally Posted by slofox

"If they don't look, you're going to get hit "

THAT'S the problem, I think...

Yep. Want to get these made up and plaster them everywhere!

Click image for larger version.

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**willytheekid** · 28th July 2011, 12:42

Originally Posted by oneofsix

nicely taken out of context. I feel he makes it rather obvious 'taught' refers to formal/school system education as opposed to learning. The article also says he rides with his mother's partner (doesn't make it clear that this partner is his dad so i wont assume that)

nicely taken out of context?...in what way?

I mearly point out the fact that most cyclists have limited training in road safety...and road rules....and to a degree...common sense!*

Times have changed, and so has traffic desity.

Yet we chuck kids on bikes, give them helmets and very "basic" road law/safety training, then we all wonder why they are dying on our roads??
If trucks have a bad run of crashes....they get targeted, if motorcyclists start dying left & right....we get targeted, same for cars etc....BUT cyclists start dying left & right on our roads...and its all OUR fault...we ALL get targeted...NOT the cyclists themselves tho...NOOoooo.....there just victims right!?

Cyclists are there OWN worst enemys fullstop!

*Guy in Auckland who swerved for a parked car opening there door....and went under a truck & died.
Car driver is now being done for manslaughter?!, even tho the cyclist had 3! choices of routes to take...he chose to take the busiest route with the heaviest traffic flow, and one that most cyclists don't use due to the dangers of high traffic flow on a narrow road.

They need to be banned from certain roads, encouraged on others and above all TRAINED to survive in NZ traffic.....simple things, like look for occupants in parked cars, use common sense when picking your route etc.

**wtf?** · 28th July 2011, 21:29

I've actually stopped wearing high viz after a bit of a go at it.

I get less respect from cages, they follow closer, pull in front more often, leave less room, and fail to give way more often when I've worn high vis gear. Not sure why, maybe its the "captain sensible" risk assessment thing on their part.

Taking it off, I get far far more respect, maybe its an image thing, without it we're seen as less predictable?

**Drunken Monkey** · 28th July 2011, 21:36

Originally Posted by willytheekid

They need to be banned from certain roads, encouraged on others and above all TRAINED to survive in NZ traffic.....simple things, like look for occupants in parked cars, use common sense when picking your route etc.

*yawn*

Could say the same about motorcyclists too.

This place is a fucking broken record...