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Thread: Stupid World

  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Given that the professionals in question are without exception tertiary qualified at minimum I can't get where the "defined as such by themselves" comes from.

    He possibly means the management professionals. In which case he's possibly unaware that unlike most industries for most health management roles at least one tertiary qual is normal.

    No sense there either. Best write it of as an unspecified bitch, let it die and move on.
    But does a degree, and therefore the earned label of professional, from the 60's, 70's or 80's still count 30, 40 or 50 years later?

    So you'd hire my Son to fill the position with his degree in Fine Art and Printing then. He got it from a top university. Or perhaps his mother with her Social Sciences (can't remember the exact title, but made for some interesting discussions and make ups) degree?

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  2. #1502
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoristheBiter View Post
    Just proves then that they only do it for the money.
    That who does it for the money? If you mean the board, then yeah, I agree.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    There's a bit more to it then what you wrote. Paragraph 3 sums it up.
    This one?

    "Now, however, it is starting to bite hard and public hospitals are creaking and straining under this intensifying pressure of ‘declining uplift’, increasing demographic pressures, and increasing government demands to do more with relatively less and without investing in workforce capacity."

    Do you really need me to disect it? What do you suppose "declining uplift" means?

    And if that's the worst spin that can be imparted I'd say the resources available can't be all that bad, eh?
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  4. #1504
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    But does a degree, and therefore the earned label of professional, from the 60's, 70's or 80's still count 30, 40 or 50 years later?
    Still count as defining the professional? Yes, it does.

    Particularly when the professional in question has several weeks taxpayer funded sabatical for each of those 30, 40 or 50 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    So you'd hire my Son to fill the position with his degree in Fine Art and Printing then. He got it from a top university. Or perhaps his mother with her Social Sciences (can't remember the exact title, but made for some interesting discussions and make ups) degree?
    No. I wouldn't hire an MBA to do anything whatsoever.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    This one?

    "Now, however, it is starting to bite hard and public hospitals are creaking and straining under this intensifying pressure of ‘declining uplift’, increasing demographic pressures, and increasing government demands to do more with relatively less and without investing in workforce capacity."

    Do you really need me to disect it? What do you suppose "declining uplift" means?

    And if that's the worst spin that can be imparted I'd say the resources available can't be all that bad, eh?
    The "declining uplift" was stated in the report as being increasing funding but at a declining rate.

    What about the increased demographic pressures, increasing govt demands to do more with less? That doesn't look like things are going well and the fact is, the health system is lacking in funds by 100s of millions of dollars.

    Putting aside the source etc, it boils down to what amounts to an "unhealthy" health service.

  6. #1506
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    The "declining uplift" was stated in the report as being increasing funding but at a declining rate
    Yes. So whereas spending in almost every other public cost centre has been reduced through the recent downtrend in revenue, healthcare has continued to receive funding increases every year, but not as great an increase as before.

    You'd rather the health system continued to receive budget increases until it's consuming every tax dollar available?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    What about the increased demographic pressures, increasing govt demands to do more with less?
    Lovely phrase, I assume they mean the population's increasing. In which case a rational criticism would probably quote dollars budgeted per head of population. Why do you suppose they haven't?

    Perhaps there's a clue there in that "more for less". It's almost inevitable that the govt should ask for more for their money, but the fact is they're supplying more money, not less.

    So the whole paragraph is heavily spun and factually vacant, why would you place any faith in the documant's content?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    That doesn't look like things are going well and the fact is, the health system is lacking in funds by 100s of millions of dollars.
    According to who? And in order to achieve what ends?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Putting aside the source etc, it boils down to what amounts to an "unhealthy" health service.
    Bullshit. The source is an inherently interested party to the health budget spend. Iv’e never heard a union yet say that their members were adequately remunerated, and I wouldn’t expect this one to start any new trends, there.

    There are problems with the health system, there’s the odd fuckup, which is simply saying that the system involves humans, but possibly the biggest problem is to do with public expectations. So while there’s individual cases of mismanagement which hit the headlines, we rarely hear about the vast majority of successful cases. We usually get pretty good service for our dollar.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  7. #1507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Yes. So whereas spending in almost every other public cost centre has been reduced through the recent downtrend in revenue, healthcare has continued to receive funding increases every year, but not as great an increase as before.
    You'd rather the health system continued to receive budget increases until it's consuming every tax dollar available?
    Lovely phrase, I assume they mean the population's increasing. In which case a rational criticism would probably quote dollars budgeted per head of population. Why do you suppose they haven't?
    Perhaps there's a clue there in that "more for less". It's almost inevitable that the govt should ask for more for their money, but the fact is they're supplying more money, not less.
    So the whole paragraph is heavily spun and factually vacant, why would you place any faith in the documant's content?
    According to who? And in order to achieve what ends?
    Bullshit. The source is an inherently interested party to the health budget spend. Iv’e never heard a union yet say that their members were adequately remunerated, and I wouldn’t expect this one to start any new trends, there.
    There are problems with the health system, there’s the odd fuckup, which is simply saying that the system involves humans, but possibly the biggest problem is to do with public expectations. So while there’s individual cases of mismanagement which hit the headlines, we rarely hear about the vast majority of successful cases. We usually get pretty good service for our dollar.

    The report was about more than remuneration.

    Anyway, here's a report about Capital and Coast DHB:http://publichealth.massey.ac.nz/ass...Good-Final.pdf

    And an article about funding:http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=10891757

  8. #1508
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    The report was about more than remuneration.
    It was a political statement by arguably the most powerful and wealthy union in the country, setting out arguments for increased spending in their sector of the health market.

    You can say that's not just about remuneration if you like. And it’s true that it’s also about a fairly impressive range of perks, political power and social influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Anyway, here's a report about Capital and Coast DHB:http://publichealth.massey.ac.nz/ass...Good-Final.pdf
    Yes. First page: "I would like to thank the private donor who helped funded this review"

    So not only is it an obvious tool to gain certain providers access to more health spending, (obviously in this case at the expense of the DHB's budget) but we're not permitted to know who paid for it.

    And again I see statements that so obviously seek to obscure the truth that the whole document is worthless as any sort of analytical tool.

    "This is a review of the Capital and Coast District Health Board (C&CDHB) decision making around primary health care and equity over the last three years, based on the release of relevant papers requested under the Official Information Act.
    It shows that during this period of economic constraint, the hospital sector expenditure grew relative to the primary health care sector. It also demonstrates that the historical pattern of inequitable access to primary care persisted, and unplanned admissions to hospital grew, suggesting increased inefficiency in the Board‟s operations."

    I wonder if the author has included in whatever actual numbers he bothered to find the huge drain on hospital budgets the endless stream of presentations to ED for minor issues represent. A stream that public health is in fact budgeted to handle, and doesn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Again: “Waitemata's increase in its main source of direct state funding was $42 million in the current financial year, but will shrink to $29 million in the year starting July 1.”

    So an organisation that has failed to meet budget at any time in the last decade is bitching because the massive increases in spending have been reduced to merely huge.

    There’s a multitude of divisions within the industry, every one of which has a different agenda. Some driven by altruistic motives, some otherwise. Unfortunately, experience has shown that some industry service provider professionals, when given responsibility for budgets almost universally fail to get the best bang for the taxpayers buck.

    If you want to see improvements in what amounts to an incredibly complex service with many contradictory stakeholders I suggest that you fire every board and CEO, round up a bunch of senior nurses with management experience and get out of their fucking way.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  9. #1509
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    It was a political statement by arguably the most powerful and wealthy union in the country, setting out arguments for increased spending in their sector of the health market.

    You can say that's not just about remuneration if you like. And it’s true that it’s also about a fairly impressive range of perks, political power and social influence.



    Yes. First page: "I would like to thank the private donor who helped funded this review"

    So not only is it an obvious tool to gain certain providers access to more health spending, (obviously in this case at the expense of the DHB's budget) but we're not permitted to know who paid for it.

    And again I see statements that so obviously seek to obscure the truth that the whole document is worthless as any sort of analytical tool.

    "This is a review of the Capital and Coast District Health Board (C&CDHB) decision making around primary health care and equity over the last three years, based on the release of relevant papers requested under the Official Information Act.
    It shows that during this period of economic constraint, the hospital sector expenditure grew relative to the primary health care sector. It also demonstrates that the historical pattern of inequitable access to primary care persisted, and unplanned admissions to hospital grew, suggesting increased inefficiency in the Board‟s operations."

    I wonder if the author has included in whatever actual numbers he bothered to find the huge drain on hospital budgets the endless stream of presentations to ED for minor issues represent. A stream that public health is in fact budgeted to handle, and doesn't.



    Again: “Waitemata's increase in its main source of direct state funding was $42 million in the current financial year, but will shrink to $29 million in the year starting July 1.”

    So an organisation that has failed to meet budget at any time in the last decade is bitching because the massive increases in spending have been reduced to merely huge.

    There’s a multitude of divisions within the industry, every one of which has a different agenda. Some driven by altruistic motives, some otherwise. Unfortunately, experience has shown that some industry service provider professionals, when given responsibility for budgets almost universally fail to get the best bang for the taxpayers buck.

    If you want to see improvements in what amounts to an incredibly complex service with many contradictory stakeholders I suggest that you fire every board and CEO, round up a bunch of senior nurses with management experience and get out of their fucking way.
    Lol! Going on your history, if the Capital and Coast DHB report was funded any other way you would have probably written it was suspect as well.

    Best to agree to disagree I think. Ever thought of getting into health care management?

    Merry Christmas.

  10. #1510
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Lol! Going on your history, if the Capital and Coast DHB report was funded any other way you would have probably written it was suspect as well.
    Every report isn't just suspected of bias it's taken for granted.

    At least if the party behind it is known one can compensate for that bias. Any report failing to declare it's funding source isn't worth reading let alone evaluating.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Best to agree to disagree I think.
    Fill yer boots, as long as you're aware that the facts don't support the proposition that the health system is underfunded.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Ever thought of getting into health care management?
    Well informed in the field doen't amount to the required qualifications.

    Certainly not in the article of doplomacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zedder View Post
    Merry Christmas.
    Ditto. Go moderately on the turps and stay out of EDs.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  11. #1511
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Fill yer boots, as long as you're aware that the facts don't support the proposition that the health system is underfunded.


    Nah, however it's Christmas and I've got other things to do.

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    omg they were radical in the olden days, when everyone knew their place, worked hard and demanded nothing form no-one.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_F...nd_politician)


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  13. #1513
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    How much more of these busybody's interfering bullshit do you suppose we have to endure?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...raction-closed
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    How much more of these busybody's interfering bullshit do you suppose we have to endure?

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...raction-closed
    that is pure wank!
    2 [reported] accidents in 35yrs the latest one caused by an idiot that can't follow instructions falls off no injuries & the whole thing gets shut down... Smells to me like the idiot has connections & is trying the great modern western trend of passing the blame, not admitting accountability.
    Science Is But An Organized System Of Ignorance
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  15. #1515
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scuba_Steve View Post
    that is pure wank!
    2 [reported] accidents in 35yrs the latest one caused by an idiot that can't follow instructions falls off no injuries & the whole thing gets shut down... Smells to me like the idiot has connections & is trying the great modern western trend of passing the blame, not admitting accountability.
    He's following their brief. Which is where the problem lies.

    The only person responsible for anyone's safety is themselves. But that wee fact isn't currently acceptable dogma.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

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