Stupid World

[bogan]

"If you occasionally buy this product, please kindly resend this letter to the World Human Right Organization. Thousands people here who are under the persecution of the Chinese Communist Party Government will thank and remember you forever"

All for the love of money.

Obviously slave labor sucks. But, I'm not sure a Communist Party Government run slave labor factory is the best example of capitalism's abuse of money. In fact I'd say it speaks more to the opposite...

[mashman]

Obviously slave labor sucks. But, I'm not sure a Communist Party Government run slave labor factory is the best example of capitalism's abuse of money. In fact I'd say it speaks more to the opposite...

So they don't sell the stuff that these workers have worked so hard to produce? If the stuff didn't need to be made, yes, they wouldn't get paid, but neither would they have to work under such conditions. Given that the Walton family have at least 4 family members in the top 20 of richest people in the world, you'd think that they would maybe up the wages a bit and take their foot of the throats, I mean gas, yes foot off the gas? Aye, nothing to do with capitalisms abuse of money in the slightest.

[bogan]

So they don't sell the stuff that these workers have worked so hard to produce? If the stuff didn't need to be made, yes, they wouldn't get paid, but neither would they have to work under such conditions. Given that the Walton family have at least 4 family members in the top 20 of richest people in the world, you'd think that they would maybe up the wages a bit and take their foot of the throats, I mean gas, yes foot off the gas? Aye, nothing to do with capitalisms abuse of money in the slightest.

The point is, it's the greed of those in power the creates the slave labor. Power abusers will always find a way to exploit those they can get away with. But it seems comparing communist china to capitalist america, it's the capitalist approach that has less serious abuse.

[mashman]

The point is, it's the greed of those in power the creates the slave labor. Power abusers will always find a way to exploit those they can get away with. But it seems comparing communist china to capitalist america, it's the capitalist approach that has less serious abuse.

Fair point... but you have to accept that the only reason the people are working there in the first place is to earn money. If people had access to the resources they need to survive for free, would they work in such conditions? Would "enforcers" still, erm, enforce if they weren't getting paid to do so? I wonder how much more than the employees the "enforcers", I mean management, I mean "enforcers" are getting paid? I wasn't trying to compare the two, but irrespective of whether a society is a democracy, socialism, communism, tyranny etc... they're all capitalistic. Governance merely decides the minimum wage

[bogan]

Fair point... but you have to accept that the only reason the people are working there in the first place is to earn money. If people had access to the resources they need to survive for free, would they work in such conditions? Would "enforcers" still, erm, enforce if they weren't getting paid to do so? I wonder how much more than the employees the "enforcers", I mean management, I mean "enforcers" are getting paid? I wasn't trying to compare the two, but irrespective of whether a society is a democracy, socialism, communism, tyranny etc... they're all capitalistic. Governance merely decides the minimum wage

Nope. They are there being exploited to support the upper class. Money is merely the medium of exchange, were money simply removed another medium would replace it, as it has been in the past.

[mashman]

Nope. They are there being exploited to support the upper class. Money is merely the medium of exchange, were money simply removed another medium would replace it, as it has been in the past.

If that was the case, they're not being exploited. Money is being used as a weapon. If you don't do as I tell you, I will not give you money.

[bogan]

If that was the case, they're not being exploited. Money is being used as a weapon. If you don't do as I tell you, I will not give you money.

Um, no that's still being exploited; the upper class is using them for its own advantage. Also, that article said they were using physical violence as the weapon, not money.

[Banditbandit]

Obviously slave labor sucks. But, I'm not sure a Communist Party Government run slave labor factory is the best example of capitalism's abuse of money. In fact I'd say it speaks more to the opposite...

I doubt that I would call the Chinese Government "Communist" .. they show little sign of withering away to leave the dictatorship of the proletariat ..

They are not Communist for al the reasons you have given mashie ... a communist Government would never exploit the workers ..

[mashman]

Um, no that's still being exploited; the upper class is using them for its own advantage. Also, that article said they were using physical violence as the weapon, not money.

What do the upper class get out of the exploitation? Why is the physical violence being administered? And why do the "workers" stay if they are suffering physical violence?

I doubt that I would call the Chinese Government "Communist" .. they show little sign of withering away to leave the dictatorship of the proletariat ..

They are not Communist for al the reasons you have given mashie ... a communist Government would never exploit the workers ..

So there has never been a truly communistic country?

[bogan]

What do the upper class get out of the exploitation? Why is the physical violence being administered? And why do the "workers" stay if they are suffering physical violence?

Fancy houses/cars/other consumables, don't have to work as hard themselves. Dunno, cos they is cunts I guess. Dunno, cos there is no other options I guess.

What I do know, is there is no reason to play connect the dots with money and any bad part of society you can find.

[scumdog]

So there has never been a truly communistic country?

No, they've all been tarnished with capitalist ailments like bribery and corruption...

Those high up milked the lower echelons and amassed personal fortunes of various sorts, side-tracked goods and materials meant for the general population.

[mashman]

Fancy houses/cars/other consumables, don't have to work as hard themselves. Dunno, cos they is cunts I guess. Dunno, cos there is no other options I guess.

What I do know, is there is no reason to play connect the dots with money and any bad part of society you can find.

Ok.

You blame society, where even Ocean called it before i.e. 1 in 300 million are "bad", so I don't blame society, I blame the mechanism i.e. financial system, for allowing these people to be "bad". After all, if the money wasn't there and we lived in "my" world, ye olde rich cunt doesn't exist and has zero power over people. That is a fact. I don't know any poor people who hold the livelihoods of billions of people in their hands, do you?

There's always an alternative.

No, they've all been tarnished with capitalist ailments like bribery and corruption...

Those high up milked the lower echelons and amassed personal fortunes of various sorts, side-tracked goods and materials meant for the general population.

So buying people off with money to do something that they know is "wrong"? Hmmmmm, and let me guess, you're going to say that that is a human problem? Because that would be a quaint and novel reason for explaining why yet another person has fucked someone over where they usually wouldn't... and the only reason that they have is because they've been given money.

I don't doubt it, and there is at least 1 way to stop that sort of activity... and it isn't going to be achieved through financial regulation or de-regulation, Greenspan found that out the hard way (or he lied and knew exactly what the financial system allows people to get away with).

[bogan]

Ok.

You blame society, where even Ocean called it before i.e. 1 in 300 million are "bad", so I don't blame society, I blame the mechanism i.e. financial system, for allowing these people to be "bad". After all, if the money wasn't there and we lived in "my" world, ye olde rich cunt doesn't exist and has zero power over people. That is a fact. I don't know any poor people who hold the livelihoods of billions of people in their hands, do you?

There's always an alternative.

It the 'allow' part that is the keyword. Were it the fault of money it would not just allow but encourage it, which it does not. Maybe there is a better system to discourage that sort of behaviour, but I've yet to see one that could work on a large scale. Was money around when the slaves built the pyramids?

As discussed in the other thread, 'your' world is very poorly thought out.

[Ocean1]

Nope. They are there being exploited to support the upper class.

How do you define upper class in this particular case?

[Ocean1]

So there has never been a truly communistic country?

Probably right actually. Is simply a poor system, no real feedback control mechanisms where it counts: Who decides who gets what, and at what cost.