Stupid World

[Katman]

....... wait for it....

Shut the fuck up.

You stupid cunt.

[bogan]

The valve employee handbook was the bolded part, it was right there in the post... Oversights like this might might explain alot about your views

And lets let Valve's economist-in-residence Yanis Varoufakis answer the questions

The hiring process

"The way it works is very simple. Let's say you and I have a chat in the corridor, or in some conference room, or wherever. The result of this chat is that we converge to the view that we need an additional software engineer, or animator, or artist, or hardware person. Or several of them. What we can do is, we can send an email to the rest of our colleagues at Valve and invite them to join us in forming a search committee that actually looks for these people without seeking anyone's permission in the hierarchy, simply because there is no hierarchy.

"And then we form spontaneously the search committee, and then we interview people, first by Skype, and then we bring them in, if they pass the test, to the company for a more face-to-face personalized interview. And anyone who wants to participate does participate.

"And then during that day -- it's usually a day-long event -- emails are fired all over the place with views whether this person should be hired or not until some consensus is reached where there's effectively no one is vetoing the hire of that particular person."

How pay is determined

"This is a haphazard process. The payment mechanism is to a very large extent bonus-based. So the contracts usually have a minimum pay segment in it, which is more or less established by tradition. And then the interesting part in this contract is how much is left to the peer review process, which is very complicated. It involves various layers of mutual assessment.

"In companies like Microsoft or elsewhere, usually the bonus is something between 8, 15, 20 percent of the basic salary. In Valve, I'm told, there's no upper limit to bonuses. Bonuses can end up being 5, 6, 10 times the level of the basic wage."

"Gabe [Newell] had this view from the beginning. He wanted a community of partners, he didn't want to be the boss of anyone or to be bossed around by anyone."

Firing people

"It does happen. I've seen it happen. And it's never pretty. It involves various communications at first when somebody's underperforming, or somebody doesn't seem to fit in with the rest of the company.

"In many occasions people simply don't fit in not because they're not productive or good people, but because they just can't function very well in a boss-less environment. And then there are series of discussions between co-workers and the person whose firing is being canvased or discussed, and at some point if it seems there is no way that a consensus can emerge that this person can stay, some attractive offer is made to the particular person, and usually there's an amicable parting of ways."

I had a look and it is actually seemingly legit.
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...74953586383604
The salaries are decided by peer assessment
The decisions as to what to do or market are formed by groups with ideas put forward by anyone.
The thing is the groups are lead by a....... wait for it.... defacto manager voted in by the group

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

[Katman]

The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

Refer post #8386.

[Virago]

...The decisions as to what to do or market are formed by groups with ideas put forward by anyone.

Management by committee?

{Shudder}

[husaberg]

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

yeah... I think it would work, with caveat of, only in fast moving tech companies, that have abundant idealistic techy gamer geeks, with a lot of competition for these places in the company , from other unemployed techy gamer geeks.
kind of like a hunger gamers approach.
I know of one real estate company that has (allegedly on purpose) far too many agents at each area, for that very reason. IE of keeping them hungry for commission, thus survival of the fittest rules.

Management by committee?

<>

insert Camel Horse analogy.

[Scuba_Steve]

Ah, so they just distribute most of the management tasks across the employees. Kind like what project engineers have been doing for decades...

Seems a little inefficient, but I guess with the low resource cost of software development it is an acceptable tradeoff. The idea that a company in which everyone is a manger is managerless remains absurd, however.

you really do lack the ability to conceive something outside the little box you've built for yourself (or let others build for you) don't you... It's interesting the way you try & rationalize it into something you can understand/grasp; I mean god forbid a company doesn't have managers, heresy!
There's alot out there that'd probably blow your mind but I'm not gonna be the one to remove you from your little box, after all it's such a nice little box isn't it, all nice & comfy & warm; Blissful isn't it

[MrMarko]

you really do lack the ability to conceive something outside the little box you've built for yourself (or let others build for you) don't you... It's interesting the way you try & rationalize it into something you can understand/grasp; I mean god forbid a company doesn't have managers, heresy!
There's alot out there that'd probably blow your mind but I'm not gonna be the one to remove you from your little box, after all it's such a nice little box isn't it, all nice & comfy & warm; Blissful isn't it

Why are companies employing people to age men?

[bogan]

you really do lack the ability to conceive something outside the little box you've built for yourself (or let others build for you) don't you... It's interesting the way you try & rationalize it into something you can understand/grasp; I mean god forbid a company doesn't have managers, heresy!
There's alot out there that'd probably blow your mind but I'm not gonna be the one to remove you from your little box, after all it's such a nice little box isn't it, all nice & comfy & warm; Blissful isn't it

Funny how you put so much emphasis on the person, rather than the output. Whether the job of a manager is done by one person, and 9 people do the job of 9 workers, should not be any different to 10 people doing 10% of a managers job and 90% of a workers job each. Harder to put the blame on the "dirty money hungry manager" in the second, which I guess is why you rationalise it as you do...

A rather apt self portrait given your demonstrable lack of understanding of mangers, economics, and all round reality.

[bogan]

yeah... I think it would work, with caveat of, only in fast moving tech companies, that have abundant idealistic techy gamer geeks, with a lot of competition for these places in the company , from other unemployed techy gamer geeks.
kind of like a hunger gamers approach.
I know of one real estate company that has (allegedly on purpose) far too many agents at each area, for that very reason. IE of keeping them hungry for commission, thus survival of the fittest rules.

Yeh it's definetly an exercise in morale boosting, that much should be clear from the self justificiation of it. Which isn't to say it's a bad decision at all in that case; but you'd be fucked if you tried to apply it to companies in which the required management ability differs greatly from the worker's ability in that field.

[Scuba_Steve]

Funny how you put so much emphasis on the person, rather than the output. Whether the job of a manager is done by one person, and 9 people do the job of 9 workers, should not be any different to 10 people doing 10% of a managers job and 90% of a workers job each. Harder to put the blame on the "dirty money hungry manager" in the second, which I guess is why you rationalise it as you do...

A rather apt self portrait given your demonstrable lack of understanding of mangers, economics, and all round reality.

Well I said I wasn't gonna pull you from your cozy little box, but I might have to have you peak out of it a bit... Here learn yourself (don't worry I've done most the work for you)

[bogan]

Well I said I wasn't gonna pull you from your cozy little box, but I might have to have you peak out of it a bit... Here learn yourself (don't worry I've done most the work for you)

Run along little puppet, your blustering and railing against 'the man' here is done...

[Scuba_Steve]

Run along little puppet, your blustering and railing against 'the man' here is done...

This really does upset your cozy little box view doesn't it... Don't worry I'm done for now, you can go back to bliss

[bogan]

This really does upset your cozy little box view doesn't it... Don't worry I'm done for now, you can go back to bliss

I never left, being a well grounded and productive project manager means I enjoy my work, and life. Why the fuck would I change that by unquestioningly swallowing the delusional negative diatribe around these parts? That would be fucking absurd. The secret to happiness is to change what you can, and accept what you can't; so the prerequisite is obviously to harbor no self delusions. I've shone a light on many of my own, so have others; but you're about a 100W short of a candle's flicker.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm simply posting in this thread to say this:

Valve has no Managers?

so THAT is why I don't have Half Life 3 yet....

[Brian d marge]

Management by committee?

{Shudder}

Austin Allegro , great car !