Stupid World

[TheDemonLord]

Also:

Get Woke, Go Broke - loosing $3.7 billion

[Graystone]

Maybe, because the other stuff is what I actually accused you of? Maybe, given what I posted up in evidence should make it clear that this was explicitly what it was in relation to? Maybe, all the subsequent posts share a single unified string of logical fact that you are ignoring?



So you're a Hypocrit by your own admission: You set one standard for other people, when they hold you to that same standard you just jump on your moral highhorse, claim irrationality and illogicality and hand-waive it away.

You answered yes when I asked if you were also accusing me of calling for censorship. If all your context shows that you do not have evidence for, or did not even mean to accuse me of that, shouldn't you have just answered no? Surely it means you were wrong when you answered yes? It's pretty dishonest to claim you meant no when you said yes, and that you were not in error to say yes...

Not at all, I set one standard for all people, but you have shown time and time again you do not even understand what that standard is, you simply don't understand the concept of honesty. As above, you refuse to admit you were wrong when it is bloody obvious yes does not mean no.

[TheDemonLord]

You answered yes when I asked if you were also accusing me of calling for censorship. If all your context shows that you do not have evidence for, or did not even mean to accuse me of that, shouldn't you have just answered no? Surely it means you were wrong when you answered yes? It's pretty dishonest to claim you meant no when you said yes, and that you were not in error to say yes...

The 'Yes' - was for what I accused you of.

Again, Context, both before and after, shows this to be the case, but you are deliberately ignoring it to try and claim some faux moral victory - presumably because you've got nothing to back your other talking points up, so you're reduced to trying to re-imagine a context where you are right.

Not at all, I set one standard for all people, but you have shown time and time again you do not even understand what that standard is, you simply don't understand the concept of honesty. As above, you refuse to admit you were wrong when it is bloody obvious yes does not mean no.

Then that's not one standard for all people if you've started creating exceptions.

Good to see you are repeatedly demonstrating your own hypocrisy.

[husaberg]

Not only in NZ, most of the Western world.

I posted the worlds figures you dimissed them as irrelevant as they made a liar of your claims sucide was the biggest killer of under 25's

The saddest part, is that Suicide is the biggest killer for Men under I think 25.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/hea...-records-began

If you'd be so kind as to scroll down to the graph that shows a rather large increase, post 2015.

You were saying something about Cherry Picking and certain years?

Cherry picking is exactly what you are doing i had the official long term figures i posted them over 20 years we had a 28% drop rather than a rise.
Now you still will not admit there has been a substantial drop over time rather than an epidemic rise as you claimed.

You say that there is an outdated concept of Masculinity. This supposes that in times gone past, this was the accepted Standard.
You say that because of this Concept, Men don't talk about their issues. Following on from the above and the previous statement, it therefore stands to reason that in the past when this standard was the norm and no one had an issues with it, that a greater proportion of Men didn't talk about their issues.
You say that this is the cause of the current Suicide epidemic.

However - if everything you said is true - that is impossible, since the suicide rate for Men has been inceasing, whereas the Suicide rate for Women has been fairly constant.

So clearly, that line of logic, when placed against the rates of Male Suicide cannot be right.

You were saying something about "Before you can solve a problem you need to be honest with yourself that there is a problem, And seek the real causes, rather than blame what is convenient to you."

Age
The rates of suicide for youth tended to be higher than other life stage groups, but the rate for youth decreased significantly over the 20-year period.

For male youth, the rate of rural suicides decreased significantly from a peak of 54.4 per 100,000 in 2009 to 15.0 per 100,000 in 2015.

I've given the reasons why I think that at the end of the 90's to the 2010's the Suicide rate for Men (remembering that the suicide rate for women remains fairly constant) decreased slightly. It has to do with Young Men's access to Male-only spaces where they can be themselves and learn how to be proper Men.

As some food for thought - many people consider the 'Gamergate' controversy as the start of the mass Feminist assault on Masculinity, It started in 2014. And post 2015, the Suicide rate starts to rise.

One might call that 'inexplicable'...

You clearly dont have a clue otherwise you wouldn't be going on about how radical femism is the reason behind males committing sucide
AS again in ther figures you again choose and posted there is a rise in Female sucides of THIS TIME 44% AND THEN 30%.
Your thoery doesnt stack up thats the reason why there is no experts that support it.

It's almost like theirs a link between telling Men they are all tyrannical, Woman-Beating Rapists - and young men killing themselves.

Female suicides increased by 44 compared to the year before - a 30 per cent increase to 193. .

Did somehow radical feminism stop those year increasing the number of female to males that killed themselves?
or between 1996 and 2015 when there was a 24% drop in total sucides was there a decrease in what you deem radical feminism then in those years.

ps seeing as you posted stuff news saying it was the highest rate of suicide sine records began can you explain how the official records i posted have much higher rates in 1996?
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015
or is having a headline that grabs attention more relevant to your point.

[Graystone]

The 'Yes' - was for what I accused you of.

Again, Context, both before and after, shows this to be the case, but you are deliberately ignoring it to try and claim some faux moral victory - presumably because you've got nothing to back your other talking points up, so you're reduced to trying to re-imagine a context where you are right.



Then that's not one standard for all people if you've started creating exceptions.

Good to see you are repeatedly demonstrating your own hypocrisy.

The 'yes' was a direct response to me asking if your post to somebody else applied to me. That is the context, why do you try and supplant it with other posts which came much before or after? They are clearly superseded by the immediate context.

The standard is the same, the problem is it requires honesty on your part to engage in the rational discussion such a standard requires. As seen above, you simply do not meet such basic prerequisites.

[TheDemonLord]

The 'yes' was a direct response to me asking if your post to somebody else applied to me. That is the context, why do you try and supplant it with other posts which came much before or after? They are clearly superseded by the immediate context.

Then clarified by the subsequent context (which you are also ignoring). Again - the only reason you are pursuing this argument is cause everything else fell flat on its face.

The standard is the same, the problem is it requires honesty on your part to engage in the rational discussion such a standard requires. As seen above, you simply do not meet such basic prerequisites.

Oh, so now the standard can't apply to me because I'm not worthy...

You should read a little history about what happens when delusional leftists start declaring that standards don't apply to some people who don't meet their prerequisites.

But I'll simply restate: If you are using an exception, it's not a standard - and you're a hypocrite.

[TheDemonLord]

I posted the worlds figures you dimissed them as irrelevant as they made a liar of your claims sucide was the biggest killer of under 25's

Did I state the World? No. I've clarified what the scope was (given the reference to Feminism, and that's only really applicable in the 1st world, I thought it would have been obvious).

Cherry picking is exactly what you are doing i had the official long term figures i posted them over 20 years we had a 28% drop rather than a rise.
Now you still will not admit there has been a substantial drop over time rather than an epidemic rise as you claimed.

Yeah, except your figures ended as the rise I am talking about started.

You clearly dont have a clue otherwise you wouldn't be going on about how radical femism is the reason behind males committing sucide

The reason?
No, I said A reason.
Stop this, you are better than that.

The rise in a particular strain of Feminism, coincides with the rise of young men killing themselves. Given some of the rhetoric, talking points and ideas (Toxic Masculinity, Rape Culture, Patriarchy etc.) this has an impact in making young men feel guilty for being themselves - Guess what people who feel guilty for Existing do? They choose not to Exist. There's a word for that: Suicide.

AS again in ther figures you again choose and posted there is a rise in Female sucides of THIS TIME 44% AND THEN 30%.
Your thoery doesnt stack up thats the reason why there is no experts that support it.

Female suicides increased by 44 compared to the year before - a 30 per cent increase to 193. .

You see that line down the bottom - you see how relatively flat it is, especially if you average out the peaks an troughs - that's the Female rate. Fairly consistent. See how the Male rate has shown an overal upward trend? Do you see how in the early 2000s it dropped off (like I said it did) - now, this graph ends at 2012 (unfortunately) but I think it's clear enough to illustrate the point.

Did somehow radical feminism stop those year increasing the number of female to males that killed themselves?

If you are asking what I think you are asking: see the above graph, yes there is variation, but overall the female rates have been pretty consistent.

or between 1996 and 2015 when there was a 24% drop in total sucides was there a decrease in what you deem radical feminism then in those years.

Yes - The internet was invented and everybody started to get rich - this has been discussed numerous times that at the beginning of the 90s was when we started to get the concept of Political Correctness, but after the dotcom boom - it seemed to stop.

As for the return of Radical Feminism - arguably the first opening salvo was in 2011, when the then Atheist Youtube Community was laying waste to Theists - the 4 Horsemen were in their prime etc. and Rebecca Watson got propositioned in an Elevator. This was the first major rift as some people (myself included) who heard her account of the incident thought she over-reacted: A Guy asked, she declined, he went about his business. Whereas to the Feminists in the Atheist community, this was a classic tail of Patriarchal Rape culture etc.

The next major event was Anita Sarkeesian's "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" series - which first got a major backlash on Kickstarter, then she released the videos. Amongst the complaints where:

1: She portrays herself as a lifelong Gamer, but there's video footage of her saying how she thinks games are stupid
2: She stole the Gameplay footage of the games she used
3: She deliberately removed all context from many of the games she critiqued - my favourite example is the game Prey - which was highly praised for it's portrayal of Native Americans and their culture
4: Most gamers don't buy into her Feminist presuppositions.

After that we had Gamergate and other events, we had people like Germaine Greer for a time become a regular on the Panel show circuit (until she committed the sin of Heresy and made a TERFish comment), we have multiple prominent (mainly) Women TV hosts espousing Feminist talking points. We have the entire education system which is run by people with a Left leaning bias (which invariably includes the Feminist world view) etc. etc.

ps seeing as you posted stuff news saying it was the highest rate of suicide sine records began can you explain how the official records i posted have much higher rates in 1996?
https://www.health.govt.nz/publicati...ables-19962015
or is having a headline that grabs attention more relevant to your point.

Did I say it was the highest rate? Or did I post it show the sharp rise over the last 3 years (which one might call an Epidemic)?

[Graystone]

Then clarified by the subsequent context (which you are also ignoring). Again - the only reason you are pursuing this argument is cause everything else fell flat on its face.



Oh, so now the standard can't apply to me because I'm not worthy...

You should read a little history about what happens when delusional leftists start declaring that standards don't apply to some people who don't meet their prerequisites.

But I'll simply restate: If you are using an exception, it's not a standard - and you're a hypocrite.

How can you clarify a yes to a no, without accepting you were in error?

The standard can't apply to anyone who does not have a basic grasp of honesty and rationality. Do not forget I am trying to apply it to you, in the above discussion. I have tried to apply it to you in the past, when I've pointed out your irrationality in your claims about things like what the Twitter CEO said, what an argument from authority means, etc; it all ends the same, with you being dishonest and irrational. This is why I only apply the standard to you in a limited 'pilot' scope, instead of going through one of you ToDoLists of bullshit.

[Laava]

Is this the right thread for abuse?

[carbonhed]

Is this the right thread for abuse?

It certainly is! Pull up a chair and how would you like it served?

[husaberg]

Did I state the World? No. I've clarified what the scope was (given the reference to Feminism, and that's only really applicable in the 1st world, I thought it would have been obvious).



Yeah, except your figures ended as the rise I am talking about started.



The reason?
No, I said A reason.
Stop this, you are better than that.

The rise in a particular strain of Feminism, coincides with the rise of young men killing themselves. Given some of the rhetoric, talking points and ideas (Toxic Masculinity, Rape Culture, Patriarchy etc.) this has an impact in making young men feel guilty for being themselves - Guess what people who feel guilty for Existing do? They choose not to Exist. There's a word for that: Suicide.

You see that line down the bottom - you see how relatively flat it is, especially if you average out the peaks an troughs - that's the Female rate. Fairly consistent. See how the Male rate has shown an overal upward trend? Do you see how in the early 2000s it dropped off (like I said it did) - now, this graph ends at 2012 (unfortunately) but I think it's clear enough to illustrate the point.



If you are asking what I think you are asking: see the above graph, yes there is variation, but overall the female rates have been pretty consistent.



Yes - The internet was invented and everybody started to get rich - this has been discussed numerous times that at the beginning of the 90s was when we started to get the concept of Political Correctness, but after the dotcom boom - it seemed to stop.

As for the return of Radical Feminism - arguably the first opening salvo was in 2011, when the then Atheist Youtube Community was laying waste to Theists - the 4 Horsemen were in their prime etc. and Rebecca Watson got propositioned in an Elevator. This was the first major rift as some people (myself included) who heard her account of the incident thought she over-reacted: A Guy asked, she declined, he went about his business. Whereas to the Feminists in the Atheist community, this was a classic tail of Patriarchal Rape culture etc.

The next major event was Anita Sarkeesian's "Tropes vs Women in Video Games" series - which first got a major backlash on Kickstarter, then she released the videos. Amongst the complaints where:

1: She portrays herself as a lifelong Gamer, but there's video footage of her saying how she thinks games are stupid
2: She stole the Gameplay footage of the games she used
3: She deliberately removed all context from many of the games she critiqued - my favourite example is the game Prey - which was highly praised for it's portrayal of Native Americans and their culture
4: Most gamers don't buy into her Feminist presuppositions.

After that we had Gamergate and other events, we had people like Germaine Greer for a time become a regular on the Panel show circuit (until she committed the sin of Heresy and made a TERFish comment), we have multiple prominent (mainly) Women TV hosts espousing Feminist talking points. We have the entire education system which is run by people with a Left leaning bias (which invariably includes the Feminist world view) etc. etc.




Did I say it was the highest rate? Or did I post it show the sharp rise over the last 3 years (which one might call an Epidemic)?

You're right i am better.
Lets recap.
You seek to blame Women for male Suicide.
Your own data doesn't support what you are saying.
all the worlds data doesn't correspond at all with what you are saying.
All the worlds experts don't support what you are saying.
the only way you can find anything close is by taking tiny amounts of data to show a small trend due to yearly variation when all the data shows a sizable drop of over time.Bravo..........

If that is what you need to make your penis feel adequate go ahead.
You deluding yourself doesn't change the real research finding that find its economic reasons and mental health the lack of male role models. Nor the size of you phallus.

ie a child is twice as likely to attempt suicide if they are from a single parent family,
Also males raised in a broken homes to be three times as likely to have thought seriously about suicide as those whose parents had stayed together.
Us figures show About 40% of children who do not live with their biological father have not seen him during the past 12 months; more than half of them have never been in his home and 26% of those fathers live in a different state than their children.
Teenagers in single-parent families and in blended families are 300% more likely to need psychological help within any given year than teens from intact, nuclear families.
Then we have drug and alcohol use.
40% of patients seeking treatment for alcohol/substance use disorder report at least one suicide attempt at some point in their lives.
Acute alcohol intoxication is present in about 30–40% of suicide attempts and suicides.
While 95% of individuals with a mental illness and/or substance use disorder will not die by suicide, 90% of individuals who do die by suicide have either a mental or substance use disorder, or both
Between 40–60% of those who die by suicide are intoxicated at the time of those who death.
Studies conducted in substance abuse rehabilitation programs typically reported that 50–75% of clients had some type of co-occurring mental disorder.
Men are more likely to commit suicide than women. Researchers suggest that men suffering from depression are more likely to go unrecognized and untreated than women suffering from depression, in part because men may avoid seeking help (viewing it as a weakness). Men who are depressed are also more likely to have co-occurring alcohol and substance use disorders than women.
Women are more likely than men to attempt suicide.
Being a parent, particularly for mothers, appears to decrease the risk of suicide. Even pregnant women have a lower risk of suicide than women of childbearing age who are not pregnant.
75% of global suicides occur in low- and middle-income countries, so suicide is not a problem that occurs only in industrialized, wealthy nations as had often be previously suggested in the past.
Unemployment is associated with increased rates of suicide.
While i am sure you will fire back that radical feminism is the cause of divorce, given the reasons women cite vs men when seeking divorce this is clearly not the case. Not that logic will preclude you from picking those undersized low hung fruit. (see what i did there)
For better or worse and love and cherish doesn't really include adultery or physical abuse.

[Katman]

Stop this, you are better than that.

No, he really isn't.

[husaberg]

No, he really isn't.

Of course ifs anyone on KB wanted someone to quantify data relevance and meaning in a logical manner everyone would automatically say yeah Katman.

[TheDemonLord]

How can you clarify a yes to a no, without accepting you were in error?

The only error was a presumption on my part of your ability to understand how English works, how statements addressed to distinct individuals works.

But it's clear - the only reason you are sticking with this - is because you've got nothing left.

The standard can't apply to anyone who does not have a basic grasp of honesty and rationality. Do not forget I am trying to apply it to you, in the above discussion. I have tried to apply it to you in the past, when I've pointed out your irrationality in your claims about things like what the Twitter CEO said, what an argument from authority means, etc; it all ends the same, with you being dishonest and irrational. This is why I only apply the standard to you in a limited 'pilot' scope, instead of going through one of you ToDoLists of bullshit.

And all very convenient that you, yourself just happen to be the arbiter of what is and what isn't...

In the words of Yoda:

Do, or do not.
There is no Try.

-Edit:

To claim you hold everyone to a standard, then to add an exception solely at your own whim, then to make the case that you'd love to try and apply that standard, but alas you cannot.

This is an extension of the Dishonesty I accused you of.

[TheDemonLord]

You're right i am better.
Lets recap.
You seek to blame Women for male Suicide.

No, try again. I'm saying certain Feminist theories that in turn drive certain public discussion and policy have an anti-male bias, which in turn is a key causal factor in the alienation that young men feel, which drives them to suicide.

Women =/= Feminists (remember, only about a maximum of 20% of women self-identify as Feminist)

Your own data data support what you are saying.

I'm glad you agree.

all the worlds data doesn't correspond at all with what you are saying.

That's because this issue is only applicable in western, first world countries - the same ones that have powerful Feminist lobbying organizations.

All the worlds experts don't support what you are saying.

All? So, Christina Hoff Sommers, Erin Prizzy, JBP, Bettina Ardnt etc. etc. aren't included as Experts?
Or are they only experts if they agree with what you are saying?

the only way you can find anything close is by taking tiny amounts of data to show a small trend due to yearly variation when all the data shows a sizable drop of over time.Bravo..........

'Cause fuck those young men right? They are just a small trend due to a yearly variation. Who gives a shit if they off themselves...

Right?

Who's the supposed Sexist again? For someone who claims to adhere to the Feminist viewpoint - you sure are doing a wonderful job of reinforcing the concept of Male Disposability...

If that is what you need to make your penis feel adequate go ahead.
You deluding yourself doesn't change the real research finding that find its economic reasons and mental health the lack of male role models. Nor the size of you phallus.

I'm flattered that you are thinking about the size of my cock - and for your information, it goes up, gives the wife the best 30 seconds of her life, then goes back down. If you need more information - you'll have to subscribe to my Premium service.

But here's the funny thing - Lack of Male Role Models you say? What an interesting idea...

Would the denigration of the traditional Male Role Model, being labelled as reinforcing Toxic Masculinity have anything to do with that? Naaaaaahhhhh.
Well done on proving my point. Also - if it was purely economic, then why aren't people in the 3rd world killing themselves en masse?

Now, before I begin this next series of rebuttals, I'd like to point out - that the below is a text Gish Gallop of throwing out a large number of tangentially related 'facts' in order to obfuscate the fact that you are talking shit.

ie a child is twice as likely to attempt suicide if they are from a single parent family,
Also males raised in a broken homes to be three times as likely to have thought seriously about suicide as those whose parents had stayed together.
Us figures show About 40% of children who do not live with their biological father have not seen him during the past 12 months; more than half of them have never been in his home and 26% of those fathers live in a different state than their children.

Okay.

Julie Bindel (Feminist)

Women, face it: marriage can never be feminist

Sheila Cronan (Feminist)

(Womens Liberation) cannot be won without the abolition of marriage

Marlene Dixon (Feminist)

The institution of marriage is the chief vehicle for the perpetuation of the oppression of women; it is through the role of wife that the subjugation of women is maintained

Andrea Dvorkin (Feminist)

marriage as an institution, developed from rape, as a practice

Review of the Female Eunuch (Watershed 2nd wave Feminist Text by Germaine Greer)

Revolution does little more than ‘peep to what it would’. It hints that women ought not to enter into socially sanctioned relationships, like marriage, and that once unhappily in they ought not to scruple to run away.

Shall I go on?

Teenagers in single-parent families and in blended families are 300% more likely to need psychological help within any given year than teens from intact, nuclear families.

In addition to the above, we've got to look at Feminist support of various bits of legislation that are hangovers from when women didn't have equal oppertunity - such as Alimony, Tender Years doctrine (which although has been replaced by more neutral laws, still has a hangover), the entire Divorce court proceedings - including false allegations of abuse being levied (I'll give you a clue in which direction the 'believable' ones are made) etc. etc.

We've removed the Societal pressure to keep families intact (Thanks to Feminism), We've removed the Legal pressure to keep families intact (Thanks to Feminism), We've setup a system where the group that on average is more prone to negative emotion can chuck in the towel, safe in the knowledge that they will get everything they want (Primary care of the kids, minimum 50% of the assets etc. etc.) with no immediate risk of loosing (Thanks to Feminism) - And you wonder why I say that Feminism might be a causal factor?

Then we have drug and alcohol use.
40% of patients seeking treatment for alcohol/substance use disorder report at least one suicide attempt at some point in their lives.
Acute alcohol intoxication is present in about 30–40% of suicide attempts and suicides.
While 95% of individuals with a mental illness and/or substance use disorder will not die by suicide, 90% of individuals who do die by suicide have either a mental or substance use disorder, or both

All very serious issues - I see you've refenced a JBP vid in another thread - you should hear what he says about helping young men with Drug and Alcohol problems. You don't tell them they are a predatory rapist whose sole existence is to oppress Wahmens underneath the heal of the tyrannical Patriarchy... Instead, you give them a challenge, one that they might be able to succeed in, but only if they work hard on it. You give them a vision of what the highest virtue of Masculinity is, and you tell them that they can achieve it.

One Message browbeats them, convinces them of their worthlessness and ties the noose around their Neck.
The other challenges them to the adventure of Life and tells them they could achieve their personal version of Greatness, provided they work hard, take responsibility and make the necessary sacrifices. Discipline equals Freedom.

Guess which message is promulgated by Feminists?

Men are more likely to commit suicide than women...Women are more likely than men to attempt suicide.

So you agree, this statement:

As for girls vs boys Boys are more impetuous where as girls tend to plan attempts, That why women have a higher success rate

Was/is factually BS (as I said it was)

Being a parent, particularly for mothers, appears to decrease the risk of suicide. Even pregnant women have a lower risk of suicide than women of childbearing age who are not pregnant.

It's almost like there's some Biology at work there...

But don't go suggesting to Women that they should aim to be Mothers - that's just the Sexist Patriarchal Tyranny talking...

75% of global suicides occur in low- and middle-income countries, so suicide is not a problem that occurs only in industrialized, wealthy nations as had often be previously suggested in the past.

Good thing I'm not (for the umpteenth time) talking about issues Globally.

Unemployment is associated with increased rates of suicide.

Yes, being cast down to the bottom of the Hierarchy, with all the associated pressures is a reason for Suicide.

While i am sure you will fire back that radical feminism is the cause of divorce, given the reasons women cite vs men when seeking divorce this is clearly not the case. Not that logic will preclude you from picking those undersized low hung fruit. (see what i did there)
For better or worse and love and cherish doesn't really include adultery or physical abuse.

Well, see above - Radical Feminism views Marriage as an extension of the Patriarchy. And yes, when 70% of all Divorces are initiated by Women, the loosening of the Social, Legal and other impediments might have something to do with it. You say 'Low Hanging Fruit' - but I think the correct description is:

"Inconvieniant facts that I'm trying to ignore because they run counter to my Narrative"

Where your pre-emptive strike fails is because the most common reason isn't Adultery or Physical Abuse - it's dissatisfaction - remember above when I pointed out Women (on average) are more prone to negative emotion than men? It's almost like theres a causal link here...