Stupid World

[Ocean1]

No, I'm sorry - they have a bachelor's degre - they are a long way from a Doctorate ... medical Doctor is not he same as PhD ...

I was aware.

: A middle class union the most militant ... Fell about laughing ...

You’re heavily into that class thing ain’t you?

I don’t give a fuck what you percieve their class to be, their union is as militant, grasping and inflexible as any in the country.

See - rather than say "knowing a few .." I looked up the pay scale on the union website - it's $60 grand ... and junior doctors appear to be the most militant because DHBs are notorius for paying no more tan they have to ...

Which is exactly what I said. See, I do know a few, so I didn’t have to research it to say exactly what you’ve just found. Except that $60k is the base rate, look again, they can and do earn way better than that.

DHBs notorious for not paying more than they have to? Then why are they paying for trainee doctor’s lunch? Do try to be consistent old chap.

Do they now ... for real ?? Or just asking your keyboard ... the "rest of the world" is a fucking big place ... ever heard of Expense Accounts FFS ... asnd other wasys of having lunch paid for by work ...

I have indeed, I have one myself. I also pay for it. You’ve got a problem telling the difference don’t you?

Your fucking big world does have an unfortunate quantity of parasitic lunch eaters I must admit, you could probably do better listing them if you got off your class grandstand.

One parasite at a time, eh? Get the junior doctors paying for their own lunch, fuck me the taxpayer still pays for most of their training, ain’t that generous enough?

[Ocean1]

Isn't that exactly what the junior doctor's union has done ????

Quite the opposite, they're insisting on keeping perks the rest of the industry gave up years ago AND they continue to bleat about their "low" income. They've been offered cash alternatives to most of their perks every time their contract's been negotiated for years, but it'd mean their real income would be publicly obvious.

I love the spin you put on things - do you work for a PR company ???

No spin here sunshine, although I can see that someone as class sensitive as yourself migh feel particularly exposed in that regard.

The difference between your two statements is only a matter of perception - not of fact .. and there's a big difference between apprentices and junuior doctors ... apprentices receive on the job training .. junior doctors recieve four years of training before they are allowed on the job ...

You've been reading again, haven't you?

So, resident doctors get no training or supervision eh? So... why aren't they out earning their keep in the real world as GPs or consultants?

[Banditbandit]

See .. I think you have made the mistake of thinking that I accept that the junior doctors should get their free lunches ... I'd be interested for you to show me where I said that ...

Yes, my world does include free lunches for my staff .. I PAY FOR THEM ... from my own pocket ... (sorry, yes, I might not have told you I do manage staff) ... I do not expect any employer to pay for lunch for me or my staff ...

I have shown no support or opposition to the free lunches - I have simply attacked the holes in your position - of which there are many ...

You've been reading again, haven't you?

Yeah .. I do that all the time - I go crazy without something to read .... currently I'm reading Dumas' The Three Musketeers .. I've just finished Tolstoy's War and Peace .. tho' why the fuck I read that I have no idea ... I read Anna Karenina a while ago and swore I'd never read Tolstoy again .. next I plan to read Stephen King's new book ...

So, resident doctors get no training or supervision eh?

Did I say that ??? ... show me where I said that ...

I think you should enter the Olympics - you'd be a star at Jumping to Conclusions ...

[Ocean1]

Yep. But our bold fellow here thinks all the young things want to stay and work in NZ because the money is so good here.

Again, let's see all of their income as wages and we'd have no problem making that comparison, eh?

As for the greener grass? Any idea how much most of the rest of the world's doctors pay in public liability insurance? It can easilly be more than a NZ consultant earns. Do you know how many institutional doctors in NZ are off-shore imports? Rather a lot. The grass here is plenty green enough for doctors I assure you.

While I am not arguing doctors and nurses will stay due to good, close food........I am not going to discount it either. My 2am trips to Te Rapa were comforted slightly by the fact I drove a cool (at the time) ute.

I wouldn't dare go back on call again though - that ship (and its perks) have sailed. Fuck knows how doctors/nurses do it.

Meh. The lunch money is peanuts compared to some of the undeclared income they make, I just find the "poor me" posturing smells bad when it's carrying all that bullshit.

Edit: and you've answered your own question I think, Nurses get bugger all perks, a modest income and still do the hard yards. They're not the country's most trusted profession for nothing.

[Ocean1]

See .. I think you have made the mistake of thinking that I accept that the junior doctors should get their free lunches ... I'd be interested for you to show me where I said that ...

Yes, my world does include free lunches for my staff .. I PAY FOR THEM ... from my own pocket ... (sorry, yes, I might not have told you I do manage staff) ... I do not expect any employer to pay for lunch for me or my staff ...

I have shown no support or opposition to the free lunches - I have simply attacked the holes in your position - of which there are many ...

Well you're wrong. Again.

And you're not doing a very good job of agreeing with me.

[Banditbandit]

Well you're wrong. Again.

And you're not doing a very good job of agreeing with me.

Hey ... who says I agree with you ... I have never stated a position on the issue ...

If you really must know - I am appalled that the junior doctors get free lunches to the extent that millions of dollars are diverted from the health budget ... fuck - my taxes are feeding those cunts !!! My version of socialism does not include free food for well paid arseholes !!!

I just really hate agreeing with you ... it doesn't come naturally ...

[Ocean1]

Hey ... who says I agree with you ... I have never stated a position on the issue ...

If you really must know - I am appalled that the junior doctors get free lunches to the extent that millions of dollars are diverted from the health budget ... fuck - my taxes are feeding those cunts !!! My version of socialism does not include free food for well paid arseholes !!!

I just really hate agreeing with you ... it doesn't come naturally ...

I don't begrudge them their free lunch because they're rich pricks, I just don't like the dishonesty of claiming to be poorly paid when the actual cash is nowhere near the whole story. The RDA need to be taken down a peg or seven, they're far too full of shit for the industry's good.

[Brian d marge]

I just really hate agreeing with you ... it doesn't come naturally ...

Dude I just gave him green bling , how do you think I feel !

BTW I swap you war and p for Heyak .... or one copy of cosmopolitan


Stephen

[Banditbandit]

I don't begrudge them their free lunch because they're rich pricks, I just don't like the dishonesty of claiming to be poorly paid when the actual cash is nowhere near the whole story. The RDA need to be taken down a peg or seven, they're far too full of shit for the industry's good.

Intreresting ... we come to the same answer by very very different routes ... I don't like the idea because the well paid pricks are sucking at the publc trough ...

But see, on the classic confrontation between the bourgoisie and the proletariat the bourgoisie have won ... and the workers are screwed ... the battle has now moved to the middle class - the ruling elite are attacking the middle classes ... which means that we see action from the middle class unions - the teachers, the nurses, the junior doctors ...

And if you don't think that is true - then just think of Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson - the tools of the ruling elite attacked the middle classes (Richardson and co finished off the proletariat with the removal of compulsory union memebrship and the CEA bill .. created a workforce totally at their beck and call ... ) Remember all the public service restructuring and the private sector restrucuring which put lots of middle New ZEalanders out of jobs in the 1980s and 90s ...


To me it is all symptomatic of late period capitalism and the need of the ruliogn classs to gain domination over society for their own benefit ...

The middle classes have always seen that their interests liwe with the ruling casses - and they are lead to beleive that by the ruling classes. It's the promise of "you can be rich like us if you do what we tell you ..."

But the middle clasees are decieved, because the ruling classes only act in their own best interest .. and the recent history of GodZone proves just that - the rulng classes are crapping on the middle classes - and people like you are sucked in by their propoganda ... and have become their tool

Dude I just gave him green bling , how do you think I feel !

BTW I swap you war and p for Heyak .... or one copy of cosmopolitan


Stephen

Sorry - I read and e-book edition of Warren Peace .. and I wouldn't recommend Tolstoy - especially that - a boring soap opera plot (like Anna Karenina) with a harsh and strange critique of the contemporaneous historians who wrote about Napolean, intermingled with Tolstoy's bullshit philosophy on the need for war and how to win one, contrasted with the Russian fuck ups on the battlefield ... I have no idea why peopel think Tolstoy is great literatuere - apart from the fact he is Russian ... I'd rather read Chekhov or Turgenev .. even Goncharov's Oblomov is a better read - and nothing happens in that at all ...

But which Hayek ? The Road to Serfdom? Or something else? What else might you trade?

I'd like this one - but she's worth more than Warren Peace

[Banditbandit]

!BTW I swap you war and p for Heyak .... or one copy of cosmopolitan


Stephen

OK ... it took the morning coffee for that to sink in ... Naaa mate - for a copy of Cosmopolitan ?? I'd be ripping you off ...

[avgas]

Meh. The lunch money is peanuts compared to some of the undeclared income they make, I just find the "poor me" posturing smells bad when it's carrying all that bullshit.

Edit: and you've answered your own question I think, Nurses get bugger all perks, a modest income and still do the hard yards. They're not the country's most trusted profession for nothing.

Possibly. But to be honest my perks are peanuts to what I get paid - but money ain't everything. It's nice to be looked after - even if I have money to do these things myself. Simply getting paid more just cheapens the deal I feel. Even though financially it is better for me - company cars and fuel cards have kept me in jobs where a "vehicle pay packages" have lost me. Could be convenience (not my car so not my problem). But don't know. Likewise I was always early to work when I got breakfast - even though I could buy the bloody stuff myself.

Never said Nurses shouldn't get it - far from it. I think it should be for all hospital staff, rather than taken away. This is why I have never been a fan of unions. They are always "Look at this waste of money and these poor sods get nothing, lets remove it from the fat pigs" rather than trying to make the perk big enough for all involved.

If people thought more positive about things, and think about how things could be improved rather than trimmed down......we would take steps forward.
As many have said here - this is not a cut people are interested in. There is potential to grow this to something positive, keeping all hospital staff in the hospital (independant of pay).
Cut something non-usefull. Like paying people to talk in the house.......away from public opinion. Hell you could replace the beehive with a facebook page where people liked different things and that would get funding. We have to stop living the 1200's. People are no longer dim, we no longer are required to elect leaders to make decisions for us.

If politicians need to talk in private about matters - they are never going to be ideas that sit well with their constituents.
Cut the crap, leave the food.

[mashman]

Private equity firms are making millions out of failing children’s care homes - yet care for vulnerable is 'unacceptable'

[unstuck]

[avgas]

Good shit. Nice feel good story. Too often people blur the lines and join the dots as they see fit.

[carbonhed]

Here's a little cost analysis of decarbonisation schemes using the UN's own figures.



Amazingly now the IPCC is dialing back it's expected warming rates the new cost benefit ratio is 100 to 1