Stupid World

[sugilite:Me]

I simply do not see it as a comparison, or for some reason if one is worse, it is ok to ignore the other as you seem to be suggesting.
You either value children's lives and fight to protect them, or you don't. To choose to protect them for one way, but not the other is entirely hypocritical in my book.
For the record I can see both sides of the argument regarding abortion. Like the police chase issue, there is no perfect answer.

I do not hate gun owners at all, I do however happen to believe that guns predominantly designed to kill humans should not be a free for all, especially people with mental illness. I'm totally open to people having special licenses to own human killing guns, but for goodness sake make them jump over a load of well thought out hoops first. If they are keen enough, they will do it - look at the hoops getting a motorcycle license for instance. Sure, some bad actors will go through that process, but at least it would weed out a bunch of them first.

[TheDemonLord]

I simply do not see it as a comparison, or for some reason if one is worse, it is ok to ignore the other as you seem to be suggesting.
You either value children's lives and fight to protect them, or you don't. To choose to protect them for one way, but not the other is entirely hypocritical in my book.

I would agree it would be hypocritical if there was a degree of parity between them - at is stands though - the Republicans are addressing the bigger issue (based on their view point) - which is entirely fair and pragmatic.

For the record I can see both sides of the argument regarding abortion. Like the police chase issue, there is no perfect answer.

Police chases are a different issue IMO - as I said for Abortion, I'm Pro-Choice - but I don't like how the Democrats are currently characterizing the issue. I'm very much of the 1990s Democrat compromise: Safe, Legal and Rare. Works for me. I believe they've reneged on the last part of that deal.

I do not hate gun owners at all, I do however happen to believe that guns predominantly designed to kill humans should not be a free for all, especially people with mental illness. I'm totally open to people having special licenses to own human killing guns, but for goodness sake make them jump over a load of well thought out hoops first. If they are keen enough, they will do it - look at the hoops getting a motorcycle license for instance. Sure, some bad actors will go through that process, but at least it would weed out a bunch of them first.

Okay - fair points then - if I'm to believe that's your position (suffice to say, I'm skeptical), then you have to agree that the 2019 Gun law changes in NZ were overzealous. We had a Special licence (The E-Cat licence) that had people jump over a load of well thought out hoops first.

That fulfilled your criteria as you've laid it out.

My question therefore is: Did we go too far?

And as usual - I'll grant you pre-emptively every bit of Nuance that you wish to add to the answer.

[sugilite:Me]

Are the republicans so useless they cannot address two issues simultaneously? To ignore one very, very bad issue is neither fair, nor pragmatic. I have absolutely no idea how you come to that view point for any other reason than you just don't care about children getting murdered in schools - and I find that hard to believe.

FFS I'm not say police chases and abortions are the same, other than neither has a clear perfect answer. You say you like engaging me, please for the love of god stop making pointless points.

OK, I admit I trolled you on the NZ guns thing, you have very few chinks in your armor, and I noticed that issue got you hot under the collar. You like a good troll now and then, so do I.
Did we go to far? Maybe. As I have no real interest being a gun owner, I have no appreciation for how hard or easy obtaining such a gun license is - thus I do not have the necessary knowledge to render an informed point of view.

You can look to my first paragraph in this post largely in response to your very long winded last paragraph.
I know damn well the gop can walk and chew gum at the same time - they choose not to. I despise them for that.

[TheDemonLord]

Are the republicans so useless they cannot address two issues simultaneously? To ignore one very, very bad issue is neither fair, nor pragmatic. I have absolutely no idea how you come to that view point for any other reason than you just don't care about children getting murdered in schools - and I find that hard to believe.

The issue is that the solutions proposed are not guaranteed to work. I firmly believe this next part:

If you could snap your fingers and remove *all* firearms from the United States like Thanos with his Infinity glove, you'd still find angry young men who would go into areas with those that are most defenseless and murder them en masse.

Again, I point to your link that you provided - the number of Semi-Autos in public hands did not decrease during the AWB and they did infact increase. So we need to ask 'What was different about the late 90s to early 2000s'.

If you actually want to fix the problem, don't focus on the tool, focus on the perpetrator. But as I said - that's hard problem and when politicians have an axe to grind, it gets ignored.

FFS I'm not say police chases and abortions are the same, other than neither has a clear perfect answer. You say you like engaging me, please for the love of god stop making pointless points.

I didn't mean it in that way - I get what you meant, I should have been clearer. Police chases have very different moral considerations is more what I meant - and so even on the comparison of 'no good answer' it's a bad comparison.

OK, I admit I trolled you on the NZ guns thing, you have very few chinks in your armor, and I noticed that issue got you hot under the collar. You like a good troll now and then, so do I.
Did we go to far? Maybe. As I have no real interest being a gun owner, I have no appreciation for how hard or easy obtaining such a gun license is - thus I do not have the necessary knowledge to render an informed point of view.

I know you do.

Tell you what - I'll take that Maybe. I, myself, would have been happy to join a club and go through the process to obtain an E-Cat for Sport shooting.

The last part though - you've got no interest because it doesn't effect you - that's a reasonable attitude - but as I keep reminding you - one day it will effect you. Then what will your tune be?

You can look to my first paragraph in this post largely in response to your very long winded last paragraph.
I know damn well the gop can walk and chew gum at the same time - they choose not to. I despise them for that.

The US situation has complications due to both Culture, the 2A and other factors. Perhaps the GoP think that 175 children in twenty years sacrificed upon the altar of freedom is worth the price.

And before you jump down my throat about 'How could I!?!' - think about this - how many children in the same time frame have died from Vaccinations? I'm willing to pick in the US it's more than 175, yet most people still choose to get their children Vaccinated. I certainly did. I did so knowing that there is an extremely small chance they might die from it - weighing that against the larger risk that they might die of a preventable disease later in life.

Replace Vaccines with Guns and you probably get pretty close to the GOP position - we accept that having a well armed population will result in some people dying, but having a well armed population prevents larger issues later on.

If you don't like Vaccinations, replace it with Sports - some people will die from playing sports.
If you don't like Sports, replace it with Swimming.

There's any N number of activities that have a small risk of death associated with them, but on the grander scheme have several benefits. The difference is most people partake in those activities and so have an appreciate of the risk and the benefit, whereas Guns have a stigma about them.

[R650R]

The stigma of guns is people think they are defenceless against them... tv and movies make us flinch at sound of a gunshot or even car backfiring.
But why don’t we feel the same fear of footsteps behind us when it could be some loser about to kinghit you from behind for a tiktok challenge and also kill you?
I went past some shitbag loser in town other day, broad daylight he’s riding his push bike right behind me hissing like a snake trying it on for a scrap. I completely ignored him but was ready to getvit on... he bored quickly then rides ibto traffic to argues with cars instead. A nutter Ike that should chill us just like a gunshot but we have t been programmed that way by media justcyet...
The good thing about guns is the sound of first shot gives you ample warning to evacuate or take other action as long as your not victim number one. However a nutter with a knife is silent.
There was a time in our world where everyone had guns, the Wild West. By all accounts behaviour to other people was lot more respectful, people felt safer and I don’t think there were any mass shootings and certainly not at schools....

[pritch]

I should also add that I believe no one is always bad or always good, Trump did some good stuff and some bad stuff, just like Jacinda did here, just like everyone.

That has major limitations and is misleading. You're assuming everybody is equal, they aren't. F'r instance I'd be interested to read your list of Hitler's good points?

Your system works fine while everybody is normal, but when dealing with the abnormal it fails.

[onearmedbandit]

That has major limitations and is misleading. You're assuming everybody is equal, they aren't. F'r instance I'd be interested to read your list of Hitler's good points?

Your system works fine while everybody is normal, but when dealing with the abnormal it fails.

I didn't say everyone was equal, that was your assumption. Of course there are degrees involved, I didn't think I would outright need to state that though.

[mashman]

Too often our emotions cloud subjects, our pride gets in the way of backing down from our position and giving thought to compromise. While I'm not enamored with where AI is going, I sometimes wonder whether better decision making could be made if we removed emotion, ie human pride, selfishness and greed from the equation. Of course we would also lose that beautiful human emotion, empathy. I guess I'd rather hold onto that and accept that greed and pride etc are just part of the deal.

Not sure why there'd be a loss of empathy? From what I can tell, Both Us and AI know that AI could choose to wipe Us out or it could choose to help us. Same could be said for any President/PM etc... and the amount of empathy they project. Enough so to see us running the rule over AI as a potential future replacement. In ways, if AI tells us less lies, it is being more empathetic than those lying. So yeah, don't really get why there'd be a loss of empathy?

[TheDemonLord]

That has major limitations and is misleading. You're assuming everybody is equal, they aren't. F'r instance I'd be interested to read your list of Hitler's good points?

Your system works fine while everybody is normal, but when dealing with the abnormal it fails.

I mean - The Autobahns aren't too bad, Volkswagen are okay (Insert joke about Ze Germans and toxic fumes).

That's about all I got.

[onearmedbandit]

That's what, the 3rd time where you've declared a book banned by a Conservative State/Country/Group and you have been proven to be incorrect on it.

My Dear Pritch - perhaps at this time, you might want to consider that when you see something on Twitter or Facebook all in an uproar about the latest 'Banned book by eeeeeevil Republicans' - that perhaps they are being a teensy bit economical with the Truth.

I wouldn't hold your breath, he couldn't admit that he was wrong and spreading misinformation, rather only that I was right 'for now' lol.

[sugilite:Me]

So no proof of these so called economic migrants then. Yet another right wing beat off, i mean beat up.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...boat-crossings

[Kickaha]

I don’t think there were any mass shootings and certainly not at schools....

There might not have been mass shooting but from the mid 1800s onward there were recorded school shootings, quite a few by students shooting their teachers

[Kickaha]

If you could snap your fingers and remove *all* firearms from the United States like Thanos with his Infinity glove, you'd still find angry young men who would go into areas with those that are most defenseless and murder them en masse.

Yes they can use vehicles or explosives but the ready availability of firearms makes it so much easier and requires far less effort than making a bomb and is far less risky than having to get up close with a bladed weapon

we accept that having a well armed population will result in some people dying, but having a well armed population prevents larger issues later on.

What larger issues ? most countries cope just fine without the prevalence of firearms the USA has and surprising as it is have less mass/school shootings

[R650R]

Yes they can use vehicles or explosives but the ready availability of firearms makes it so much easier and requires far less effort than making a bomb and is far less risky than having to get up close with a bladed weapon s

You’re applying logical thinking to a process where there’s ample evidence that the people in the mental state required to commit these offences don’t think logically. Risk isn’t a concept for the deranged who have chosen to exit society in a careless manner.

Even on a local level as we see barriers applied to quite minor criminal behaviour we see fast evolution in operational practice. Obvious example being ram raids. Previously disaffected youth would steal a car enjoy a few burnouts and torch the car. If they wanted smokes or booze they would just shoplift on small scale.
Now they think nothing of doing a ram raid.
And thanks to poor censorship of computer games and music videos the govt has almost promoted the culture along with the no consequences participation trophy society.

[onearmedbandit]

And thanks to poor censorship of computer games and music videos the govt has almost promoted the culture along with the no consequences participation trophy society.

We need us a good old fashion book burning huh