Stupid World

[BoristheBiter]

From that site you said made less sense than the fucked up link:

"Gradually, the government is starving the NHS of money. This is deliberate. As hospitals run out of money - and the exorbitant repayments on PFI deals are a major factor here - they become prey to takeovers by private companies. This has already happened, with Serco taking over Newmarket Hospital.

Not only does a private company cherry-pick profitable services but it gains infrastructure paid for by the taxpayer. It can also give preferential access to equipment such as kidney machines, blood and organs that were specifically donated by the public to the NHS for use by everyone."

Removes the burden from the public system? Myself and my family have been on the end of private healthcare in the UK and yes, the operations/consultancy/treatments received where received at an NHS public facility. So there is a burden on the public system, just one that very few seem to know about.

Edit: They actually lost my Step Dads records after him having been in hospital for 3 weeks. Originally they where confused as to why he had lost a pint of blood, so whacked in another pint only to find that it expanded the growth on his kidney to the size of a football. So he had to wait for his chemo whilst they hunted for his records. My Step Mum was also misdiagnosed with fibroid cysts, only to wake up 1 Saturday morning jaundiced and to die the following Thursday. Public or private is a bullshit argument when they're both supposed to be performing the same service and both can fuck up just as badly as the other. Fighting over resources will see more people die, especially when it's all down to how much $ you have. $ does not equal harder worker or better human being, but for some unknown reason the decision making fucktards of the world seem to think so... else there wouldn't be a need for multi-tiered service levels. Tis only gonna get worse when more and more of it becomes private.

Seems like everything I've read about the NHS over the last few years has been a horror story. Mid Staffs just beggared belief. Another bloated sacred cow that needs slaughtering.

Yep there are horror story's here as well, My mum was left until her gal bladder went gangrenous. But this was not an error due to lack of funding or resources, this was human error. I'm not saying it is perfect or should we tolerate it but how many good story's are there?

the biggest thing I notice when having to deal with public hospitals is how they just couldn't give a shit.
Mate came off his bike massive damage, in middle more, both arms in plaster, them put his dinner out of reach then fucked off, got sick of him pressing the call button so moved it out of reach.

Maybe we should be able to sue for malpractice, mistreatment etc and maybe they standard will increase.

[mashman]

Yep there are horror story's here as well, My mum was left until her gal bladder went gangrenous. But this was not an error due to lack of funding or resources, this was human error. I'm not saying it is perfect or should we tolerate it but how many good story's are there?

the biggest thing I notice when having to deal with public hospitals is how they just couldn't give a shit.
Mate came off his bike massive damage, in middle more, both arms in plaster, them put his dinner out of reach then fucked off, got sick of him pressing the call button so moved it out of reach.

Maybe we should be able to sue for malpractice, mistreatment etc and maybe they standard will increase.

Am sure there are horror stories everywhere irrespective of the model being used to provide the services... and yeah, human error is very likely quite high on the list of suspects in the "bad" cases and I wonder how much of that is incompetence given that a frequently incompetent professional usually gets sacked. I guess that's the risk of working in such an area where a bad hair day can kill someone. The nursey folk I knew back in the UK, girlfriends of friends, usually harped on about being under resourced and over worked and a few of them had left switching for the teaching profession. For my money nurses should be earning more than bankers... but alas. As you say, there are hundreds of thousands/millions of happy endings.

Your mate is probably a dickhead too and was asking for it... guilt by association like.

Aye, that's a great idea, suck even more money out of the healthcare system and into the pockets of lawyerz etc...

[carbonhed]

Seems to be what happens when you treat your staff like shit. It looks like it has been slaughtered with some of the staff being scattered to University facilities and other hospitals in the region. I guess this is the face of healthcare to a budget.

It wasn't the staff being treated like shit at all... it was the patients being treated like shit by the staff. They were working to satisfy managerial targets, like length of time in A&E, rather than abiding to their duty of care. Staffing levels were definitely a problem though. "No more boom and bust" Gordon Brown apologised but incredibly wasn't burned at the stake.

[Ocean1]

They were working to satisfy managerial targets, like length of time in A&E, rather than abiding to their duty of care.

Some of those targets, (here) represent professional best practice as defined by the professionals in question.

Just saying.

[oneofsix]

Some of those targets, (here) represent professional best practice as defined by the professionals in question.

Just saying.

The professionals are defined as such by themselves and even when not are more often constrained in what they can do and recommend be a totally different set of managerial 'professionals' (often known as puppets).

Just saying.

[carbonhed]

Some of those targets, (here) represent professional best practice as defined by the professionals in question.

Just saying.

For sure. But wheeling someone out of casualty before the 4hr target... when they haven't been treated... just to tick a box! Sounds like they didn't have the staff to meet the targets and instead of saying FUCK THE TARGETS and treating the patients they did the opposite.

I have family back in the UK and they experienced this. We thought my Uncle must be nuts.. it's the NHS FFS but he was right and nailed their arse to the wall.

[mashman]

It wasn't the staff being treated like shit at all... it was the patients being treated like shit by the staff. They were working to satisfy managerial targets, like length of time in A&E, rather than abiding to their duty of care. Staffing levels were definitely a problem though. "No more boom and bust" Gordon Brown apologised but incredibly wasn't burned at the stake.

From the executive summary of the public inquiry:

"The previous reports are clear that the following existed: a culture of fear in which staff
did not feel able to report concerns; a culture of secrecy in which the trust board shut
itself off from what was happening in its hospital and ignored its patients; and a culture
of bullying, which prevented people from doing their jobs properly. Yet how these
conditions developed has not been satisfactorily addressed"

Not exactly a caring sharing way to treat your staff and unfortunately it's likely that that filtered through to patient care.

It also mentions, as you highlight, that senior highly trained staff left as the concerns raised by their staff, patients and patients families fell on deaf ears at a higher level.

[Ocean1]

Sounds like they didn't have the staff to meet the targets and instead of saying FUCK THE TARGETS and treating the patients they did the opposite.

Don't pretend to have a deep understanding of NHS performance guidelines. But. If you staff an ED to meet peak demand you'll blow any rational budget. Which is not to say you get to do less than your best for anyone walking through the door.

Outside of the perfectly normal rate of human error there's similarities between the problems the NHS have and some of the problems experienced here. Some of them are merely extremely complex logistical puzzles. Some are cultural flaws. In the first case a successful resolution depends on senior management professionals’ ability to educate policy makers on how to maximise resources and the ability to manage public expectations to match what can reasonably be provided from those resources.

In the second case a resolution often requires the complete replacement of a particular institution. I wonder if that’s what’s going on, there.

[Ocean1]

The professionals are defined as such by themselves and even when not are more often constrained in what they can do and recommend be a totally different set of managerial 'professionals' (often known as puppets).

Just saying.

Can you make that make sense?

[Zedder]

A report on the NZ public health system:http://www.asms.org.nz/Site/Publicat..._Canberra.aspx

[Ocean1]

A report on the NZ public health system:http://www.asms.org.nz/Site/Publicat..._Canberra.aspx

By the Association of salaried Medical Specialists, (The union).

Just in case anyone was considering this an unbiased source.

Who are basically saying that although all of the resources allocated to the industry have increased and continue to increase, and although the various performance indicators for the industry continue to improve the government aren't paying them enough.

All clear?

[mashman]

Can you make that make sense?

The professionals are defined as such by themselves... and even when they are not, they are more often constrained in what they can do, and recommend, by a totally different set of managerial 'professionals' (often known as puppets).

Just saying.

Is how I read it. If it still doesn't make sense, , then I won't be surprised.

[Ocean1]

Is how I read it. If it still doesn't make sense, , then I won't be surprised.

Given that the professionals in question are without exception tertiary qualified at minimum I can't get where the "defined as such by themselves" comes from.

He possibly means the management professionals. In which case he's possibly unaware that unlike most industries for most health management roles at least one tertiary qual is normal.

No sense there either. Best write it of as an unspecified bitch, let it die and move on.

[Zedder]

By the Association of salaried Medical Specialists, (The union).

Just in case anyone was considering this an unbiased source.

Who are basically saying that although all of the resources allocated to the industry have increased and continue to increase, and although the various performance indicators for the industry continue to improve the government aren't paying them enough.

All clear?

There's a bit more to it then what you wrote. Paragraph 3 sums it up.

[BoristheBiter]

Seems to be what happens when you treat your staff like shit. It looks like it has been slaughtered with some of the staff being scattered to University facilities and other hospitals in the region. I guess this is the face of healthcare to a budget.

Just proves then that they only do it for the money.