After decades in woods, New Hampshire man forced from cabin... what a pack of cunts.
Aio ki te Aorangi
After decades in woods, New Hampshire man forced from cabin... what a pack of cunts.
I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!
Geriatric hoon
There is considerable evidence that many people just don't like other people being happy. He wasn't hurting anybody or the environment, nor it seems was he spoiling anybody's view.
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Aio ki te Aorangi
Ditchin' yer oil refinery...
Hardcore Biker
No, not the world .... the Olympics.
It has been an interesting two weeks (quite a few late nights spent in front of the TV), and the NZ team has done very well for itself. Some prospects for medals within future games.
Sadly, I had to concede to my English friend in Tokyo that the GB team had managed to narrowly squeak in ahead of the NZ team in the medal count, and I had to concede bragging rights on this occasion.
https://olympics.com/tokyo-2020/olym...-standings.htm
Though I did see one event which seemed to cast some doubt on impartiality:
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/...-b1898551.html
A politically aware horse! My first thought was that it was an English horse, given that it decided not to perform for both the German and Russian athletes. ��
But then I realised the truth behind the matter. It was just waking us up to the fact that horses (who do all the work) don't get the medals. It's their oppressive riders who get all the medals.
I fully expect to see more horses taking a knee (hopefully just before a jump) to make us all aware of this problem in sport.
Geriatric hoon
That pissed me off. And not just because I worked on the construction of the original refinery, or that several people died on the job while it was being built. Over time we have gone from having a refinery and a synthetic petrol plant, to simply storing three weeks worth of gas. Far sighted that ain't.Originally Posted by mashman
Ditchin' yer oil refinery
The anticipated battery powered car bonanza has not arrived as yet. I was reading yesterday that manufacturers in the US recommend not charging a car overnight, nor do they recommend parking a fully charged car in a garage. The things have been bursting into flames. They also recommend not parking two cars together or they could both turn into a big ball of flame.
Chevrolet have recalled 60,000 electric vehicles. The technology seems immature?
There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop
Low personal B.M.E.P.
There's a quote somewhere from Laurence Pomeroy i was reminded of :
to the effect - The first versions of the new will always be beaten by the developed versions of the old.
He was referring to Grand Prix cars but the principle applies.
Forum whore
The car fire was 2 Tesla's in a garage, one went up and took the other one with it + most of the house. At time of print Tesla had not inspected the vehicles nor contacted the owner. He now drives an Audi with petrol... I larfed at the owners response to the Tesla claim that more ICE vehicles go up in flames compared to electric. Pretty sure he said summit like "not in the garage they don't". Most of the ICE car fires I've been privy to were started by an electrical fault or while the battery was being charged.
As for Marsden point
FFS, what kind of future proofing is that? Should keep it operational for production of none fossilised fuels at least. If everything goes to the green plan, we could be refining whale oil in 50 years.
And another thing. It's not just the plant, it's all the skills, equipment, tooling, workers, education opportunities and independence going down the shitter. Oof. We will be left with Homer Simpson watching the fuel tank levels
Sorry, I feel better now, might have a crumpet and a wee nap.
Manopausal.
Forum whore
more re marsden point: when the shareholders say it is "loosing money" is that just corporate speak for "not making enough money"? Are the oil company owners really on the bones of their arse, so to speak? Government should nationalise the whole energy industry - oil, gas and electricity. Gove them something to whine about
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
Forum whore
Corporately speaking I do believe losing money is the same as less profit.
Pretty sure most, if not all, of the shareholders and decision makers are not worried about paying their mortgage.
Nor worried about NZ.
Manopausal.
Hardcore Biker
Think that between the three following articles, you can probably determine the main points governing the latest decision.
https://www.smh.com.au/business/comp...30-p56a5f.html
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/marsden-p...save-100mt-co2
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/125...r-closure-vote
My guesses are:
Differing Shareholder Objectives
That the 3 major oil companies will have differing objectives to the NZ Government, despite being joint shareholders of the Marsden Point refinery. NZ Government would be far more concerned about continuity of supply of finished product (especially a wide product mix ranging from avgas down to heavy tar).
Older Refining Plant
That the refinery (opened 1964) is just over 55 years old, and might have only another 10-15 years operational life. Note that BP Australia plans to close a comparable plant (Kwinana refinery in Perth), especially in light of reduced product demand during the global Covid pandemic. Refer to the first link above.
I had not seen any recent photos of the Marsden refinery until just over a year ago, but I was amazed at the number of new storage tanks present on the site, so the decision just announced was really no surprise. A transition to just an Import Terminal seemed an obvious conclusion.
Cheaper Refined Product from Overseas
Much larger (and newer) refineries based in Asia will make production and acquisition of refined product cheaper, as well as make longer term retention of the existing Marsden Point refinery plant less attractive. Purchase of an old plant by the NZ Government would not seem at all attractive, and nationalisation would be even worse (a political death wish).
Ongoing Operational Costs
Continued operation of the Marsden Point refinery for the remainder of its operational life will not only incur increasing operational costs (e.g. electricity), but it would expose all shareholders to increasing NZ carbon costs per tonne. Refer to the second link above.
Conversion to an Import Terminal and Ongoing Profitability
Though the change from a mixed refinery and tank storage to an import terminal would incur a conversion cost, this cost would be partially recovered over the next 10 years. And the tax credit from asset write-down of the existing refining plant should recover the balance of the conversion cost, as well as return a reasonable net profit to shareholders. Refer to the third link above.
The new import terminal would be operated by Channel Infrastructure, and I imagine it would have some control over transfer pricing for finished product acquired overseas (attractive for the oil company shareholders).
Aio ki te Aorangi
The story I saw on the tellybox mentioned that the refinery couldn't process much of the oil produced around NZ. If that's the case, was the design shit or was the plant, over time as part of various trade deals (UK killed a coal industry and imported the stuff cheaper = trade deal maths), converted to process overseas oil? So long as what the tellybox said was true like...
Remote detonation by competing car firm.
Aio ki te Aorangi
We should do away with the absolutely specious notion that everybody has to earn a living. It is a fact today that one in ten thousand of us can make a technological breakthrough capable of supporting all the rest. The youth of today are absolutely right in recognizing this nonsense of earning a living. We keep inventing jobs because of this false idea that everybody has to be employed at some kind of drudgery because, according to Malthusian Darwinian theory he must justify his right to exist. So we have inspectors of inspectors and people making instruments for inspectors to inspect inspectors. The true business of people should be to go back to school and think about whatever it was they were thinking about before somebody came along and told them they had to earn a living. - Buckminster Fuller, approximately 50 years ago.
"Contribute or you deserve to suffer!" - Society today.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Forum whore
The version I heard many years ago was that the NZ produced (Taranaki) crude oil was of such high quality it was better to be sold overseas (for more profit, what else?) and cheap'n'nasty stuff imported for refining here. It's also likely that Taranaki alone could not support all of NZ demands.
it's not a bad thing till you throw a KLR into the mix.
those cheap ass bitches can do anything with ductape.
(PostalDave on ADVrider)
Hardcore Biker
Afternoon.
As I put in my original post, those were my guesses. It's been over 25 years since I last worked for one of the remaining oil companies operating in NZ.
When I look at the change in amount of economic development that has occurred since (e.g. China - Asia in general), then any picture that I had of the oil processing industry at that time has long since changed. The same applies to how locally extracted product (sourced from NZ waters) has also been processed and consumed. And how their reserves have reduced over the same time.
To try and answer your question, a good starting point might be:
https://www.mbie.govt.nz/building-an...il-statistics/
which provides links to a number of resources:
1. Data Tables for Oil, which outlines the product supply-side picture (see "Monthly Oil Suppply Statistics")
2. Trade, which indicates from where in the world we get our source products (for refining or for direct consumption)
3. Refinery, which indicates the range of finished product types we produce. Look at this link in conjunction with the next link (4. Oil).
4. Oil : An Introduction for New Zealanders
With respect to the last link:
https://www.mbie.govt.nz/assets/77e0...zealanders.pdf
-See page 25 of the linked PDF, which provides a schematic of a distillation column, and the types of products typically produced.
-See also pages 66-67, which provides a snapshot of the NZ Product Mix from the Marsden Point Refinery. [ Obviously some numbers will have changed since this document was written (2008), but it should still provide a good enough overview.]
The basic points to take away from all of the above is that while we can source a range of crude oils to process in the refinery - and produce a wide range of product types in turn:
1. The refinery output mix (proportions of light to heavy fractions) can be varied, but the refinery columns will tend to be operated so as to produce those fractions most needed on an ongoing basis (e.g. transport fuels).
The refining schedule at the Marsden refinery used to be varied (on a roster basis) in response to the needs of individual shareholder companies. This was to allow them to be able to meet their local NZ product supply contracts (i.e. those of their own retail distribution network, as well as the needs of major commercial customers). [ Product volume needs of the other shareholder oil companies were also bundled into the final operational mix / schedule for that period, of course.]
New Zealand will also have certain seasonal demand patterns (e.g. higher demand for domestic vehicle petrol - and heavy grades used for asphalt production - during the NZ Summer months).
2. Some crudes are better for processing (and for use in post processing) in a refinery, so obtaining various crudes will vary with factors such as (i) purchase price on global markets (ii) availability - ability to be landed in NZ when needed (iii) light / heavy component split (as well as presence of contaminants).
To expand a little further:
a. Crude prices could vary due to offshore events (e.g. OPEC pricing; overseas wars). Hence the presence of oil futures markets - in order to try and smooth out price and supply volatility.
b. Variation in global tanker shipping availability, which could be affected by factors such as (i) tanker shortage (ii) tanker crew shortage. [ It's not the tankers or their crew members that are short - just the number of them available at a point in time.]
c. Crude oils are also rated by terms such as (i) sweetness (ii) density:
https://www.indexmundi.com/commoditi...sour-crude-oil
The net result is that "sweet" oils tend to require less energy during refining, and need less cleaning up.
The lighter fractions they produce also tend to be in demand (as "cutters" in refineries processing heavier "sour" crudes) and so command a price premium. [ Hence why NZ extracted crude oils have been exported overseas - to Australian and Asian refineries - in the past.]
"Sweet" oils have a lower sulphur content. The propensity of sulphur to "poison" catalytic converters in cars explains the desirability of low sulphur crudes for use in production of domestic vehicle petrol.
[ Hence the preference for lower sulphur crudes, and the recent introduction of a new sulphur unit at NZRC : https://www.refiningnz.com/keyprojec...olidification/ ]
Ultimately, getting sufficient volumes of finished products into the local NZ market is a big balancing act [ i.e. crude pricing and purchase --> shipping --> allocation to available and appropriately tuned refining plant --> local storage and distribution costs]. While keeping a focus on overall profitability.
TV Programme
I did not see the news clip on the TV to which you referred in your post, so I can't comment on what specific story was being told.
But you can see that even if the Marsden Point refinery was physically able to process the local feedstock (without any plant upgrade), other factors will have come into play when deciding whether to further continue its operation long term. [ My guess is that refinery upgrade or wholesale replacement was financially unattractive to the oil company shareholders in NZRC, and that the NZ Government would have faced a large cost to not march in step.]
Others will know the true answer to your question, but they will not necessarily be telling.
Kruger-Dunning Parts n Service
Yep all thats lost on the fools in Wellington with regards to heavy infrastructure. They have no idea of the spin offs from having all that heavy engineering know how and gear, big cranes etc. same with the yrucks vs trains argument. If we had their green utopia of everything on rail we would have no back up distribution infrastructure in a disaster.The car fire was 2 Tesla's in a garage, one went up and took the other one with it + most of the house. At time of print Tesla had not inspected the vehicles nor contacted the owner. He now drives an Audi with petrol... I larfed at the owners response to the Tesla claim that more ICE vehicles go up in flames compared to electric. Pretty sure he said summit like "not in the garage they don't". Most of the ICE car fires I've been privy to were started by an electrical fault or while the battery was being charged.
As for Marsden point
FFS, what kind of future proofing is that? Should keep it operational for production of none fossilised fuels at least. If everything goes to the green plan, we could be refining whale oil in 50 years.
And another thing. It's not just the plant, it's all the skills, equipment, tooling, workers, education opportunities and independence going down the shitter. Oof. We will be left with Homer Simpson watching the fuel tank levels
Sorry, I feel better now, might have a crumpet and a wee nap.
Govt gives you nothing because it creates nothing - Javier Milei
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