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Thread: Stupid World

  1. #11491
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  2. #11492
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking01 View Post
    South China Sea
    Meanwhile, I see that the UK Minister of Defence has been busy visiting Japan, in preparation for the arrival of her Majesty's Royal Navy. And that HMS Defender (the one that suffered navigational problems near Crimea on the Black Sea) has been despatched to escort HMS Queen Elizabeth. God knows where they'll end up this time (better not be Hong Kong - that could be unfortunate).

    This is apparently to help sort out another little border dispute (the one in the South China Sea). And while the UK doesn't have a land border anywhere near the South China Sea, it's obviously "keen to get involved", and has offered two warships to help with the keeping of the peace.

    I'm still not sure exactly what they're going to be doing, other than sailing up and down the Taiwan strait, waving the flag (and two fingers) to the Chinese.
    I guess it all comes down to whether you think what the Chinese are doing in the South China Sea is even close to being fair. If they get away with all that shit then what? One thing is for certain, the New Zealand Navy are fucked if the Chinese do decide to come this way.

    At some point someone has to stand up and point out that things are wrong. It is going to be very interesting watching this flotilla. I am sure nothing will happen but fairly soon the shit is going to hit the fan then you'll have to decide whether you are going to deride people for standing up to bullies or whether you and your kinds want to speak Cantonese and use chop sticks.
    Last edited by Berries; 25th July 2021 at 19:59. Reason: Chinese

  3. #11493
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    Financial System Has Come to an End Martin Armstrong. Betcha Socrates ain't the only AI that's come to the same conclusion. Totalitarianism, at the request of the people coz they're too busy on the lookout for commies and voting for those who say they will protect them, here we come. If only it weren't all so very very very predictable.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  4. #11494
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Financial System Has Come to an End – Martin Armstrong. Betcha Socrates ain't the only AI that's come to the same conclusion. Totalitarianism, at the request of the people coz they're too busy on the lookout for commies and voting for those who say they will protect them, here we come. If only it weren't all so very very very predictable.
    Yep, doom and gloom are just around the corner as usual.
    Must be time to dust this old chestnut off again.
    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...re+market+2014

  5. #11495
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    I guess it all comes down to whether you think what the Chinese are doing in the South China Sea is even close to being fair. If they get away with all that shit then what? One thing is for certain, the New Zealand Navy are fucked if the Chinese do decide to come this way.

    At some point someone has to stand up and point out that things are wrong. It is going to be very interesting watching this flotilla. I am sure nothing will happen but fairly soon the shit is going to hit the fan then you'll have to decide whether you are going to deride people for standing up to bullies or whether you and your kinds want to speak Cantonese and use chop sticks.
    Afternoon,
    Thanks for the reply. The original post was (obviously) a gentle dig at Boris the Brave and his current boundary problems. But I see that you've picked up on just the China element of that post (which intrigues me).

    So , based on your reply (#11492), let me ask you a few questions:

    1. What specifically is it that the Chinese are doing in the South China Sea that you disagree with? And why do you think the British flotilla has been despatched ?

    2. What is it that you think the Chinese will do in the future ? Invade Taiwan ? Stage some large scale invasion of the Asian region ? Down as far as Australia and NZ ?

    3. Which specific things are you calling out as "wrong" ? And if so, are we being even-handed and calling out some of the other players for their actions in the region as well (in the South China Sea) ? And elsewhere ?

    4. Why should I consider just China as the "bully in the region" (when we consider the history of China and the surrounding region from since say 1850, around the start of the First Opium War) ? e.g. Just because western media tell me that is the way I must think ? Just because we have had traditional military alliances with the US and UK (and helped fight their wars in the past) ?

    5. Does NZ have a "dog in the fight", should a conflict start in the South China Sea (whoever starts it, and for whatever reason) ? And why ?

    6. Me and my kind ? Just who or what are we (just so I know what label is being applied)?

    Look forward to your reply.

    Cheers,
    Viking

  6. #11496
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    Ha ha, I meant kids not kind.

    What China is doing around the Spratly Islands is simply bullying knowing that nobody will stand up to them. Yes, perhaps they will invade Taiwan one day. They certainly won't be able to deal with them the way they have taken Hong Kong back under the PRC wing.

  7. #11497
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    Yep, doom and gloom are just around the corner as usual.
    Must be time to dust this old chestnut off again.
    https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/s...re+market+2014
    Around the corner ...
    Aye, the link never ages. It's a good proof of Einstein's theory of insanity. Printing money to the rescue, again, and again, and again, and again, and still the slide continues.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  8. #11498
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    Or have we reached the point now where the major economies have all decided they're "too big to fail"?

    If most of the value is now on paper, so long as they all continue to agree that that paper has value, they can keep chugging along indefinitely (barring asteroid impacts/runaway atmospheric collapse/alien invasions etc).
    Moe: Well, I'm better than dirt. Well, most kinds of dirt. I mean not that fancy store bought dirt. That stuffs loaded with nutrients. I...I can't compete with that stuff.
    - The Simpsons

  9. #11499
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Around the corner ...
    Aye, the link never ages. It's a good proof of Einstein's theory of insanity. Printing money to the rescue, again, and again, and again, and again, and still the slide continues.
    Its always the homeless, lazy & unsuccessful that are rooting for the collapse of the financial system.
    That's perfectly understandable.

  10. #11500
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    Quote Originally Posted by nerrrd View Post
    Or have we reached the point now where the major economies have all decided they're "too big to fail"?

    If most of the value is now on paper, so long as they all continue to agree that that paper has value, they can keep chugging along indefinitely (barring asteroid impacts/runaway atmospheric collapse/alien invasions etc).
    Well, they've been doing everything they can to have it not fail, although I reckon more out of necessity (seriously, all ideology, dogma, conspiracy etc... can be ignored in the analysis of what is if one chooses) than out of cockiness that they own the game and not the other way around (if that's what you meant by too big to fail?).

    Aye, confidence is everything, although that's only really achieved by 'hiding' the failures behind wads of cash injected into that which is clearly failing. As you say, all it really takes is for joe public to have confidence that their income won't be affected and they can, and very much do, ignore everything else not matter what the cost.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  11. #11501
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    Quote Originally Posted by sidecar bob View Post
    Its always the homeless, lazy & unsuccessful that are rooting for the collapse of the financial system.
    That's perfectly understandable.
    Not it isn't. (They simply want/need more money, well, those who don't realise just how detrimental current human activity is... but you'd only know that f you took the time to be human about these things.)
    So no, it clearly isn't.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  12. #11502
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    Ha ha, I meant kids not kind.

    What China is doing around the Spratly Islands is simply bullying knowing that nobody will stand up to them. Yes, perhaps they will invade Taiwan one day. They certainly won't be able to deal with them the way they have taken Hong Kong back under the PRC wing.
    Afternoon.

    Thanks for the reply (and for clarifying the "kind / kids" sentence ... 8-)

    Bullying
    To me, "bullying" is just another of those "loaded" words used in the media to put some spin on the actions of one party involved in a dispute. And that is what the Spratly Islands affair is - a territorial dispute.

    If I just use the first two diagrams shown in the following Wiki article:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spratly_Islands_dispute

    you can see that the Spratly Islands are many, and some are currently occupied (not just claimed by a number of neighbouring nations). And for any of a number of different reasons (e.g. claims upon minerals / petroleum reserves / fishing stock under Economic Zone boundary; monitoring of marine activity; security over trading and oil supply routes).

    Is China (PRC) deemed to be in breach of an international ruling regarding several of the Spratly Islands ? Yes. I don't dispute it.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/...outh-china-sea

    But in the scheme of things, this is a regional territorial dispute. I'm quite confident that the various regional players - if they were left alone to their own devices - would be able to resolve the situation over time and come to satisfactory outcomes.

    But that will not be permitted to happen - not by the US nor by the other ex-colonial powers that have operated within China and the surrounding region over the past 150+ years (e.g. the UK, France, Japan, Germany). At least, not in the immediate future. [ This still begs the question as to what justifies their involvement. ]

    If one was really concerned about "bullying" (or illegal occupation and worse) by external parties, then perhaps we should concentrate on far more important instances around the world.

    If we looked back over just the past 25-30 years, the following come to mind (e.g. Yugoslavia in the 1990's; Afghanistan starting 2001; Venezuela starting in the early 2000's; Iraq starting 2003; Libya starting 2011; Syria starting 2011).

    And if you wound the clock back just on 100 years (to the time of the Versailles Treaty settlements), you would find the nexus of some of the major conflicts that have afflicted this Asian region (i.e. the start of the socialist / nationalist movements that sought colonial independence for their nation, and which led to political change in China, Korea and Vietnam - but culminated in their associated wars). But that's a separate discussion.

    Conflict
    China has risen to be a significant economic power in the Asian region. And now poses a challenge to the US primarily on an economic front (in the region and beyond).

    While the US has traditionally been able to maintain control over many of the Asian countries via (i) threat of military force (ii) threat of revoking access to US banking systems and the USD, that power is slowly weakening.

    Brought about by (i) Chinese trade and integration of regional countries in global supply chains (ii) rise of non-US banking groups (iii) slow de-dollarisation and introduction of alternative payment settlement systems, and (iv) increase in China's own military strength and weapon capabilities.

    It has also been compounded by Chinese refusal to (i) adopt a purely capitalist economic structure - as dictated by the US - instead choosing to adopt a mixed capitalist / socialist model (ii) allow US financial entities to "reform" its banking system and to gain control of its major financial entities.

    [Edit]
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/56670.htm

    Taiwan
    Taiwan (previously Formosa) has been regarded as a Chinese entity since the 17th century:

    https://www.commondreams.org/views/2...ever-be-fought

    Following the end of WW2 (and the expulsion of the Japanese), socialist Chinese forces then expelled right-wing KMT forces (along with their US military support) from the Chinese mainland in 1949 (just prior to the formation of the PRC).

    The KMT in turn forcibly (brutally) took control of what was then Formosa (now Taiwan), with the intention of returning and forcibly removing the PRC from power.

    [ Just as an aside, it should also be noted that had the mainland Chinese not decided to fight alongside the North Koreans in 1950 (just as US-dominated forces were threatening the Chinese border near the Yalu river during the Korean War), the KMT may well have had their wish granted. US General Douglas MacArthur and the US Pentagon were both quite focused on not just "liberating" North Korea, but also continuing on across the Chinese border, occupying Manchuria (the industrial heartland of mainland China) and then forcing regime change. This was while the US enjoyed nuclear and air force advantages over both NK and China.]

    It is possible that mainland China could invade Taiwan one day, but I doubt very much that it will occur (and certainly not by choice). Not only because there are several alternative options available to the PRC, but that invasion would be seen by the PRC as an action of "last resort".

    There has been a high degree of economic integration between businesses on Taiwan and mainland China, so war would be seen as being highly counter-productive to Chinese business on both sides of the Taiwan strait.

    With the increase in industrial and economic development of mainland China since 2000, there is a small degree of humour in the situation that many supporters of the "KMT of old" have now effectively aligned themselves with the CCP. And that it is now the DPP (currently in power) that is shouting out for independence.

    I leave it up to you to decide whether you think recent US actions regarding (i) the supply of enhanced weaponry to Taiwan (ii) a possible US military presence in Taiwan (in breach of earlier agreement on a "one China, two Party" policy) actually enhances regional security - or whether it simply advances US interests.

    [Edit]
    https://journal-neo.org/2021/07/26/w...outheast-asia/
    https://thegrayzone.com/2021/07/27/w...taiwan-crisis/
    https://ggc-mauldin-images.s3.amazon...G_Enlarge.jpg?

    Hong Kong
    It is well known that the Chinese emperor (Qing dynasty) was forced by the UK to cede control over Hong Kong at the end of the First Opium War (1842). The war arose from British merchants forcibly introducing opium into China, using the proceeds from opium sale to then fund the purchase of silver, porcelain, tea and various luxury goods. [ I have seen figures of 1.3 million Chinese opium addicts quoted.]

    As a result of a Second Opium War (1860), the Chinese emperor was then forced to enter into a more extensive treaty (with a further HK treaty extension granted in 1898 for a 99 year duration, ending 1997).

    So the “return” of Hong Kong simply marked the return of a portion of its sovereign territory previously forcibly taken. [The Chinese opium trade was finally forcibly ended by the CCP when the PRC was established in 1949.]

    While the PRC could have simply left the treaty to expire (without any conditions), they chose in 1984 to retain HK as a special administrative region, and to enter into a 50 year agreement (Sino-British Joint Declaration) which would retain a “high degree” of the legislative structure then used by the British. Both parties (China and the UK) obviously saw trading advantages accruing from such an agreement.

  13. #11503
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viking01 View Post
    Is China (PRC) deemed to be in breach of an international ruling regarding several of the Spratly Islands ? Yes. I don't dispute it.
    We agree. Sweet.

  14. #11504
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    Quote Originally Posted by Berries View Post
    We agree. Sweet.
    Morning.

    I'm not sure whether we agree. But on that one point, I'll concede that we have come to a common understanding of the situation.

    You have a good day.

    Cheers, Viking

  15. #11505
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    On the radio just now: there is a medical practice in Sydney administering COVID jabs. The jab is free but they are charging $370 for the "consultation".
    It seems there must be people silly enough to pay $370 for something that should be free.
    There is a grey blur, and a green blur. I try to stay on the grey one. - Joey Dunlop

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