Fucking looters and yobbos and rent-a-mob in London

[BMWST?]

Sorta what I thought about this rioting rabble - if they're that hard done-by and so poor why the fuck do they stay there??


Do they like being down-trodden and poor or something?

I mean, if life in a place sucks that much what are you doing there...

where do they go,and how do they get there.This is another symptom of the real problem.There are too many of us living on this planet,and too few have the real share of the wealth.Since the beginning of the industrial age a few have controlled and needed the majority.Now that mass production is come of age we just dont need the huge labour forces we used to need.I dont know the answers but this situation has been brewing for 50 years.

[scumdog]

There are too many of us living on this planet,and too few have the real share of the wealth.

Summed up to a T.

And sadly those who can least afford to breed the most...

[Oblivion]

Summed up to a T.

And sadly those who can least afford to breed the most...

Exactly why China has enforced the one child policy. Now the country that is breeding the most is India. And apparently they are offering something like 2000 Rupees to every man who gets "fixed"

[blue rider]

There are too many of us living on this planet,and too few have the real share of the wealth.Since the beginning of the industrial age a few have controlled and needed the majority.Now that mass production is come of age we just dont need the huge labour forces we used to need.I dont know the answers but this situation has been brewing for 50 years.

why it answers is

Soylent Green

[slowpoke]

And they couldn´t have made a peaceful protest like the thousands of Spanish protesters that marched on Madrid because?

It started out as a peaceful protest. But unlike the Spainish the Poms don't go for a wee lie down after lunch. Nor do they have hot chicks to chase.

Because it wasn't a protest, just mindless yobbos thinking they're hard by throwing a brick through some poor bastards business.

-Indy

You need to do a bit more reading Indy, but somehow I don't think you will. It started as a protest against policing in the area and morphed into something else. Respect for the law is tough when you see the law as being blatantly unjust (rightly or wrongly). Once you lose respect for the police, and then overwhelm them, it's only a matter of time before a few "have nots" decide to be "haves". That "poor bastard", with what we see as a crappy wee business is probably seen as wealthy in those communities, hence the "gimme some of what he's got".

You can jump in with blinkers and boots if ya want but it won't fix anything. But then many folks don't give a shit about actually fixing the problem(s), as long as they can't actually see it everything is just fine.

I dont envy David Camerons job for one second as he has inherited a practically unfixable basket case. What I always remember is turning up in the UK in the winter of 81, 3 and a half million unemployed and dear old Maggie grappling to drag the country back on its feet after a disastrous Labour administration and unions holding the Governments of the day to ransom. In many respects she succeeded, only for it all to be squandered by Tony Blair and above all that idiot Gordon Brown.
After arriving I was able to get a job straightaway which I then held down for the next 4 years. Sure I had skills but also I was prepared to work and work very hard. I think most societies reward hard work? To be brutal most of the poms that I worked with were useless,very adept at moaning and with no more aspiration than collecting their weekly wage and going to the pub. Maybe most of the good ones have left?
I do have some empathy with what you say Slowpoke as I have seen a lot of what you describe firsthand, but its not only about Governments.
Having said that if I lived and worked in the UK Id have no hesitation in voting for David Cameron and hopefully next election they will elect a Tory Government that wont need those wet Liberals.

Don't forget your dashing good looks Robert! And what employer in their right mind could reisist those puppy dog eyes?

You are absolutely right, in that there are options available. My argument is that the culture of "hopeless and useless" is very firmly entrenched in the rioting communities and it's very difficult for them to see let alone grasp them.

As an example: when I first came back to NZ and settled in Martinborough which as a pretty lil' wine village was humming along quite nicely 5-6years ago, I had quite an interesting chat with my local GP. He'd just come back from Africa, and I remarked how different it must be in Marty. He suprised me by saying "yes and no". Apparently he treated similar diabetes/obesity/STD's and many other lower socio economic health issues here as he treated in his struggling African community. How could that be in developed NZ? His response was that "it's how you are raised, it's what you are taught". IE: You're hungry, you get some fish and chips. Despite being massively overweight, losing parents at a young age, on permanent medication etc. It doesn't matter: It's what your parents were given as kids, it's what you were given, it'll do your kids too. It's the mindset, it's the programming, it's the automatic response. There are the exceptions but people don't all of a sudden wake up from that culture and say I'm gonna have a salad today, especially when they are still immersed in the culture and ridiculed for attempting to break out of it.

Same goes for unprotected sex/teenage pregancies/STD's: you are the child of young parents, raised in a large or single parent family with no money or just guvvie handouts, what's the problem? Nipping down the doc's to get your weeping dick treated is something everyone has done, they'll probably even tell you what medication worked for them and have a laugh about it on Friday night when you piss half your money up against the wall. What? You're not coming out for a drink? Why not, d'you think you're too good to drink with us? Oh hey, I'm outta cash bro, can I "borrow" $50? And so the cycle continues..........

There are always exceptions, the fringe dwellers who break out of it, just as there are their counterparts at the other end of the bell curve who revel in their underclass status. But by and large the overwhelming proportion just go with the flow and follow their peers.

Which is why the tall poppy syndrome in NZ fuckin' disgusts me. Success is some sort of albatross hung around someones neck, "look at that wanker, I bet he shat on a few people eh?" "look at his car bro, key the fucker, that'll teach him". It's almost seen as a crime to succeed, and little wonder our young kids, boys especially, don't try at school. God forbid you show some work ethic, and a few brains, you'll be ridiculed beyond belief.

I totally agree Cameron is up against it. It's chicken lays egg, egg creates chicken ad infinitum. I just feel the hard decisions aren't being made, the decisions that will change things in the long term (there is no quick fix). Absolutely the criminal behaviour needs to be processed as what it is. But something needs to happen to change these communities, because something is not right and the longer it goes on the harder they are to repair. As you mention it's not solely up to governments to fix this, and my faint hope is that the communities also realise how fucked up they are and try to change from within.

[Winston001]

Interesting thread.

Hmm...so there are two points of view:

Either the rioters are exuberant youth who rob and steal because they think they can get away with it while pretending to "protest"...

Or - there are urban communities in Britain where hopelessness and unemployment is the norm. The riots are an outbreak of frustration and rage.




Why don't they go somewhere and get a job? If life is harsh, seek opportunity. That is exactly how countries like NZ and Oz were settled.

[Brian d marge]

Interesting thread.

Hmm...so there are two points of view:

Either the rioters are exuberant youth who rob and steal because they think they can get away with it while pretending to "protest"...

Or - there are urban communities in Britain where hopelessness and unemployment is the norm. The riots are an outbreak of frustration and rage.




Why don't they go somewhere and get a job? If life is harsh, seek opportunity. That is exactly how countries like NZ and Oz were settled.

bit of both , but u have never lived on these estates

they are pretty bad ...... a world unto their own ......... and you don't want it in NZ

Stephen

[Robert Taylor]

It started out as a peaceful protest. But unlike the Spainish the Poms don't go for a wee lie down after lunch. Nor do they have hot chicks to chase.



You need to do a bit more reading Indy, but somehow I don't think you will. It started as a protest against policing in the area and morphed into something else. Respect for the law is tough when you see the law as being blatantly unjust (rightly or wrongly). Once you lose respect for the police, and then overwhelm them, it's only a matter of time before a few "have nots" decide to be "haves". That "poor bastard", with what we see as a crappy wee business is probably seen as wealthy in those communities, hence the "gimme some of what he's got".

You can jump in with blinkers and boots if ya want but it won't fix anything. But then many folks don't give a shit about actually fixing the problem(s), as long as they can't actually see it everything is just fine.



Don't forget your dashing good looks Robert! And what employer in their right mind could reisist those puppy dog eyes?

You are absolutely right, in that there are options available. My argument is that the culture of "hopeless and useless" is very firmly entrenched in the rioting communities and it's very difficult for them to see let alone grasp them.

As an example: when I first came back to NZ and settled in Martinborough which as a pretty lil' wine village was humming along quite nicely 5-6years ago, I had quite an interesting chat with my local GP. He'd just come back from Africa, and I remarked how different it must be in Marty. He suprised me by saying "yes and no". Apparently he treated similar diabetes/obesity/STD's and many other lower socio economic health issues here as he treated in his struggling African community. How could that be in developed NZ? His response was that "it's how you are raised, it's what you are taught". IE: You're hungry, you get some fish and chips. Despite being massively overweight, losing parents at a young age, on permanent medication etc. It doesn't matter: It's what your parents were given as kids, it's what you were given, it'll do your kids too. It's the mindset, it's the programming, it's the automatic response. There are the exceptions but people don't all of a sudden wake up from that culture and say I'm gonna have a salad today, especially when they are still immersed in the culture and ridiculed for attempting to break out of it.

Same goes for unprotected sex/teenage pregancies/STD's: you are the child of young parents, raised in a large or single parent family with no money or just guvvie handouts, what's the problem? Nipping down the doc's to get your weeping dick treated is something everyone has done, they'll probably even tell you what medication worked for them and have a laugh about it on Friday night when you piss half your money up against the wall. What? You're not coming out for a drink? Why not, d'you think you're too good to drink with us? Oh hey, I'm outta cash bro, can I "borrow" $50? And so the cycle continues..........

There are always exceptions, the fringe dwellers who break out of it, just as there are their counterparts at the other end of the bell curve who revel in their underclass status. But by and large the overwhelming proportion just go with the flow and follow their peers.

Which is why the tall poppy syndrome in NZ fuckin' disgusts me. Success is some sort of albatross hung around someones neck, "look at that wanker, I bet he shat on a few people eh?" "look at his car bro, key the fucker, that'll teach him". It's almost seen as a crime to succeed, and little wonder our young kids, boys especially, don't try at school. God forbid you show some work ethic, and a few brains, you'll be ridiculed beyond belief.

I totally agree Cameron is up against it. It's chicken lays egg, egg creates chicken ad infinitum. I just feel the hard decisions aren't being made, the decisions that will change things in the long term (there is no quick fix). Absolutely the criminal behaviour needs to be processed as what it is. But something needs to happen to change these communities, because something is not right and the longer it goes on the harder they are to repair. As you mention it's not solely up to governments to fix this, and my faint hope is that the communities also realise how fucked up they are and try to change from within.

Yes I think that pretty much sums it up, well said!

[Indiana_Jones]

You need to do a bit more reading Indy, but somehow I don't think you will. It started as a protest against policing in the area and morphed into something else. Respect for the law is tough when you see the law as being blatantly unjust (rightly or wrongly). Once you lose respect for the police, and then overwhelm them, it's only a matter of time before a few "have nots" decide to be "haves". That "poor bastard", with what we see as a crappy wee business is probably seen as wealthy in those communities, hence the "gimme some of what he's got".

I understand it started as a protest, but as with most protestors there's always one or two that wanna have a go with the pigs for larks, they just like a bit of confrontation.

So pretty much you're calling them petty thieves?

And agreed with the zero repect for the law bit, it's true and is in a lot of other western nations and fear it will only get worse.

-Indy

[FJRider]

... there's always one or two that wanna have a go with the pigs for larks, they just like a bit of confrontation.

And agreed with the zero repect for the law bit, it's true and is in a lot of other western nations and fear it will only get worse.

-Indy

Doing things as an individual ... you get noticed quickly ...

Do things as a group .... you still get noticed ... but more difficult to stop and identify all the offenders ...

A bit like a group of speeding motorcyclists ...

[jonbuoy]

They definitely got noticed, the UK was starting to look like a safe haven for outside investors in the euro zone, not any more.

http://www.currencies.co.uk/2011/08/...-rates-worsen/

[SPman]

I rather enjoy this guys p.o.v. Arthur Silber - He normally has some decisive comments on things..

"But surely, surely you don't condone the violence in England?" Since I doubt I will ever hear the only sensible response from anyone else, let me offer it myself:

"Whether I condone it or not is fucking irrelevant, you pompous ass."

powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2011/08/your-approval-of-history-is-irrelevant.html

And do I "disapprove of" and "condemn" the violence itself? No, I don't. In this context, I don't know what such condemnation even means. Violence is a completely understandable response, particularly when every other means of amelioration and recourse has been systematically closed off. When you leave people no choice but to engage in violence, they'll engage in violence. You want to condemn someone as responsible? Look in the goddamn mirror, fuckhead.

[Brian d marge]

If you wanted to see pissed of people , the Qu aright through to the Han dynasties in China , ,,, they were some pissed off peasants

Stephen