MNZ rule change proposals

[Grumph]

And after you've scrutineered at sparrowfart the wheels get pulled out to change tyres, the weather changes so wheels get pulled again and shock and spring settings get changed....ad nauseum.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you're going to scrutineer at all it should be on the dummy grid just before going out.
The yanks did it for years - i have no idea if they still do.
Yes it would be difficult with tyre warmers - but not impossible.

As for checking suspension settings - I don't know a volunteer scrutineer in NZ who would be game to try and tell a rider he/she had it wrong....

[Robert Taylor]

And after you've scrutineered at sparrowfart the wheels get pulled out to change tyres, the weather changes so wheels get pulled again and shock and spring settings get changed....ad nauseum.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - if you're going to scrutineer at all it should be on the dummy grid just before going out.
The yanks did it for years - i have no idea if they still do.
Yes it would be difficult with tyre warmers - but not impossible.

As for checking suspension settings - I don't know a volunteer scrutineer in NZ who would be game to try and tell a rider he/she had it wrong....

Yes its a real can of worms, but the most ''blatant'' really bad and clearly UNSAFE issues could be identified. Thats really my point.

[steveyb]

Scrutineering of machines is a total can of worms. It opens up all sorts of legal and indeed ethical issues around personal and collective responsibility.

My contention is that the legality is very clear. In the entry form for contemporary race meetings there are clauses that state that when you, as a competitor, sign the form that your machine, and gear (at least it should also state gear) are both suitable for purpose, i.e. safe, and meet the regulations for the class of racing into which you are competing.

This introduces the personal responsibility.

If you are with mates or a team, or simply pitted next to a competitor, with a machine or gear that you know or find out is unfit or illegal then it behoves you to point this out to that competitor or the authorities of the meeting in an effort to repair/rectify said machine/gear.

This is the introduction of collective responsibility.

Too often we will say to ourselves or our mates that so and so's bike is not right, but do nothing about it, it's someone elses problem. This needs to change.

Duck shoving this responsibility onto already overworked volunteers who have no business becoming your scapegoats when your machine shits itself after a scrutineer told you it was OK when they are checking a machine with hands and eyes, not spanners and screwdrivers is simply unacceptable.

Sure, we are human and miss things sometimes, but it is your responsibility to ensure you miss as few things as possible, not the organisers. Leave plenty of time to prepare you machine accurately. It is not rocket science. But the collective responsibility includes the organisers too and having such things as random safety checks and gear checks at sign-in and/or on the dummy grid are where they can contribute to the collective (Roberts favourite form of political movement) by informing the individual.

Furthermore, I personally believe that issues such as poorly prepared and ineligible machines come down to education and then to the desire on the part of competitors to do the right thing. Believe it or not, there are plenty of competitors out there who actually do not want to do the right thing.

In other countries riders must pass a series of tests of various kinds before they can race at increasing levels. I don't know if these tests include machine preparation classes/modules but they should as it is just as important as any other component of racing.

I have stated previously, that I believe that road racing in NZ is at a crossroads right now where the introduction of graded and tested racing licences needs to occur.

You can wake up now, I've finished......

[Grumph]

I agree with the collective responsibility thing but getting it to operate is bloody hard.
In the SI I can point to a number of pre 82 bikes (just as an example) which are either blatantly illegal or suffer from the "I'll put the right bits on later" syndrome.
The class is supposed to be self regulating but will anyone actually protest ? Well not so far...and the owners have been spoken to in most cases without result.

Rider intelligence is another thing entirely - some years ago I had a TZ presented for scrut with no discs fitted....he was in the middle of changing tyres on 2 bikes and had run out of time. I gently informed him that,yes, I needed to see that he had discs and they were fitted correctly and in good nick....and if he ever tried that again I'd kick his arse....all he'd needed to do was tell us he needed more time.

[TonyB]

Illegal is not the same as unsafe. Pre82 down here is pretty social from what I've seen. People seem happy to let a guy race with bits that aren't elligable (USD forks/ full floating rotors etc) for a while till they get the money together to sort it out. In the mean time they just get a freindly ribbing.

I have raced against bikes that are unsafe. Nearly always at street races now that I think about it... One bike was spraying such a mist of oil that I took my helmet to show the track marshall- the visor was covered in oil. So were my leathers. I felt like a nark, but he was putting us all at risk. The rider in question claimed to have the problem sorted so he was allowed back out- I never found out if it was fixed because I made bloody sure I was in front from then on. I've also had a bike go down next to me when the brakes had a catastophic failure at the first corner of the first race. It was allowed back out with 1 disc instead of 2, and a repair that everyone who saw it said was dodgy as.

back to numbers. I say again- if 3 digit numbers are illegal then why are MNZ offering them as your only option? When I first applied for MNZ numbers a few years back I gave three 2 digit options. They gave me a 3 digit number. Yes numbers 1 to 10 are reserved for last seasons top 10, but are there really more than 89 other riders in my class looking for an MNZ number? If there are, then maybe they need to start allowing alphanumeric numbers

[MSTRS:Me]

...
back to numbers. I say again- if 3 digit numbers are illegal then why are MNZ offering them as your only option? When I first applied for MNZ numbers a few years back I gave three 2 digit options. They gave me a 3 digit number. Yes numbers 1 to 10 are reserved for last seasons top 10, but are there really more than 89 other riders in my class looking for an MNZ number? If there are, then maybe they need to start allowing alphanumeric numbers

Who knows how the bureaucratic mind works? Despite it trying to do the 'right' thing, it seems fated to never achieving it.
The only thing we can be sure of is it's ears don't work right and it suffers from tunnel vision.

[malcy25]

Furthermore, I personally believe that issues such as poorly prepared and ineligible machines come down to education and then to the desire on the part of competitors to do the right thing. Believe it or not, there are plenty of competitors out there who actually do not want to do the right thing.

One of the most truest things I have seen written Steve, excellent!

In the SI I can point to a number of pre 82 bikes (just as an example) which are either blatantly illegal or suffer from the "I'll put the right bits on later" syndrome.
The class is supposed to be self regulating but will anyone actually protest ? Well not so far...and the owners have been spoken to in most cases without result.

Illegal is not the same as unsafe. Pre82 down here is pretty social from what I've seen. People seem happy to let a guy race with bits that aren't elligable (USD forks/ full floating rotors etc) for a while till they get the money together to sort it out. In the mean time they just get a freindly ribbing.

TonyB and Grumph, this is not directed at you guys, just in general on that attitude:

Sorry, "social" or whatever, it is complete bullshit letting these guys getting away with it - they are showing a complete lack of respect to all the other riders who have made the effort and they know they are taking the piss.

A couple of good old Kiwi attitudes there that probably need to be disabused - "I won't say anything and just hold it all in" and "no one will care, I'll use a bit of #8!"

As hard as it is, I have seen one protest go in and it sorted a lot of people out as they realised that consequences can happen....I'd rather they piss off and take their problem elsewhere, than take the piss out of everyone else who has done it properly. The good thing is that a protester does not have to have their name released I think.

My general view is shit never gets put right while you let people "get away with it" as where is the reason to change? Where in the rule book does it provide them personally an exception?

I bet there are a lot of riders who "seem happy" but deep down they are probably a little pissed off, but don't want to rock the boat. I know, I've been in that camp and have been approached also by riders who have. I got over it in the end and have fronted any number of riders over the years, so they would know full well. I also know of a few riders who have been written to after events and told, don't bring it back until it is sorted.

Maybe rather than spend money on entry fees, they could spent it on the parts they need!!!

In terms of the wider topic so we are not off post, there is no rule changes required on this subject, just a few cement pills!!

[Kickaha]

Sorry, "social" or whatever, it is complete bullshit letting these guys getting away with it - they are showing a complete lack of respect to all the other riders who have made the effort and they know they are taking the piss.

When I raced my RD350LC in pre82 you could probably argue that it was illegal as it has the first model RZ350 forks in it

These still looked period, took the original brakes and handled just as poorly as the stock forks

lack of respect and taking the piss? I doubt it as the RZ was built in that time period (Pre82) but the NZPCRA got the rules changed to specifically exclude them when they got the shits with a pre82 RZ350/LC hybrid being built down here

[TonyB]

For the record I dont race in pre82, so I'm only commenting on what I have seen. Nobody down here is spending big dollars on a pre82 bike, and there really does seem to be a willingness to let someone with a bike with non period parts race, just so they get some track time, and also to get the numbers up. There also seems to be an expectation that they will sort it out eventually though.