MotoGP, Indianapolis

[riffer]

After watching today's race I have to wonder now if there is one solitary person at Ducati that still thinks they can tune the problems out of the carbon fibre chassis?

[slowpoke]

Supersport 600 isn't fractionally quicker. It's also cheaper than Moto2 and is linked with what people actually ride. Moto2 has absolutely no connection with the viewing public and non-motorcyclist people I know who used to watch 250GP simply don't "get" it and have turned off.

The point of comparison is that Moto2 leaves me utterly cold. 125GP is fantastic. It has personalities, personality, and scraps at the front that can consist of 2 riders or 10. I rather suspect that next year's Honda singles benefit is going to be just like Moto2. A bunch of bikes that arrive at the corners together and skittle people until there's enough of a gap for the skitlling to stop. The slow skittling.

With the production engine based bikes turning up in MotoGP next year I think they may as well just give up the fight and can the whole show. Then manufacturers can concentrate on pouring what little money they have into classes that may convert to actual sales for them.

WTF?! You're talking in circles man!

Let me get this straight:

1. First it's a bad thing that a Moto2 bike has little connection to the bikes we ride then you're lamenting the loss of GP250's which have even less connection with what we ride?
2. And somehow changing the bikes is going to change the "personalities" of the guys we never hear about anyway?
3. And why is an Aprilia benefit ok, but a field of different manufacturers (or even your worst case Honda scenario) isn't?

And here's a comparison of Moto2, Supersport, and GP250 times, from last year:

Losail
250cc race lap record: 1m 59.379s (Debon, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 2.537s (Luthi)
Difference = +3.158s

Jerez
250cc race lap record: 1m 43.338s (Bautista, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 44.710s (Elias)
Difference = +1.372s

Le Mans
250cc race lap record: 1m 39.666s (Simoncelli, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 39.169s (Cluzel)
Difference = -0.497s

Mugello
250cc race lap record: 1m 53.669s (Bautista, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 55.647s (Iannone)
Difference = +1.978s

Silverstone (New track)
WSS race lap record: 2m 8.717s (Sofuoglu)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 9.886s (Luthi)
Difference = +1.169s

Assen (Modified track for 2010)
WSS race lap record: 1m 38.608s (Sofuoglu)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 38.917s (Iannone)
Difference = +0.309s

Catalunya
250cc race lap record: 1m 45.925s (de Angelis, 2007)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 47.543s (Iannone)
Difference = +1.618s

Sachsenring
250cc race lap record: 1m 24.552s (Bautista, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 25.629s (Iannone)
Difference = +1.077s

Brno
250cc race lap record: 2m 2.299s (Lorenzo, 2007)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 4.315s (Elias)
Difference = +2.016s

WSS race lap record: 2m 2.708s (Crutchlow, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 4.315s (Elias)
Difference = +1.607s

Indianapolis
250cc race lap record: 1m 44.720s (Simoncelli, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 46.580s (Simon)
Difference = +1.860s

Misano
250cc race lap record: 1m 38.993s (Simoncelli, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 39.430s (de Angelis)
Difference = +0.437s

WSS race lap record: 1m 38.868s (Crutchlow, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 39.430s (de Angelis)
Difference = +0.562s

Motegi
250cc race lap record: 1m 51.412s (Bautista, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 53.653s (Simon)
Difference = +2.241s

Sepang
250cc race lap record: 2m 7.597s (Aoyama, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 2m 8.691s (Simon)
Difference = +1.094s

Phillip Island
250cc race lap record: 1m 32.710s (Bautista, 2008)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 34.771s (Iannone)
Difference = +2.061s

Estoril
250cc race lap record: 1m 40.521s (Bautista, 2007)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 45.456s (Redding)*
Difference = +4.935s

* Wet track throughout practice and qualifying.

Valencia
250cc race lap record: 1m 35.659s (Kallio, 2007)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 36.611s (Abraham)
Difference = +0.952s

WSS race lap record: 1m 36.865s (Crutchlow, 2009)
Moto2 race lap record: 1m 36.611s (Abraham)
Difference = -0.254s

Spot that last one Jim? Or Le Mans? Not bad for a first year with absolutely no setup info. And they're only getting quicker.

I don't see the point in getting wound up over something I can't change. I can sit here like Eeyore with a rain cloud over my head whinging about past glories, or I can draw a line in the sand and enjoy the racing available. Choose your attitude and choose your result. If folks don't enjoy it that's their problem not the fault of the bikes, or organisers, or engineers because it's still a fuckin' great show.

[White trash]

Weird old race really. I'm a bit dissapointed BS duffed the start so bad, I was really hoping he could perhaps latch onto Stoner and really give him a good battle.

Championship's Stoners to lose now I reckon. Bet ol' George is having a bit of a cry that his newbie team mate nicked a few valuable points from him.

Great result for Bautista too. Christ I hope Suzuki can build a competitive 1000cc for next season.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Great result for Bautista too. Christ I hope Suzuki can build a competitive 1000cc for next season.

Do we even know if they're coming back next year?

[Crasherfromwayback]

I'm a realist. I'd rather be sitting here watching a grid chock a block with good riders on fast bikes with an engineering point of difference, than watching a one make half full grid.

I hear ya mate. I'm simply a grumpy old two stroke lover is all!

[eelracing]

WTF?!

I don't see the point in getting wound up over something I can't change.

But your fair frothing at the gash to prove a point in that post mate.

For all the "technical racebike" brouhaha you like to spew they are still ponderously slow production racebikes with frames made to fit around the same engine/airbox specs.These are not GP bikes...they are idiot proof commuters,designed to fool you into thinking your watching a class race series.

You may prefer to watch shite GP racing but fucked if i'm gonna accept it.

[LBD]

Anyone know what time (NZ) the racing starts.....?Im actually more interested in when the 6hundies start

Go to www.motogp.com and look at the race schedule that shows "race time" (Orange).. click on the clock at the left of the race schedule and it changes to the time on your computer.

[puddytat]

Bugger i missed the 125's,slept thru the alarm
But the 600's made up for it....dunno why you guys are winging as i find them & the 125's by far the more exciting races to watch.The GP race Im afraid is a tad boring with to small a field.
Quite the disaster weekend for Ducati .

[Ivan]

But your fair frothing at the gash to prove a point in that post mate.

For all the "technical racebike" brouhaha you like to spew they are still ponderously slow production racebikes with frames made to fit around the same engine/airbox specs.These are not GP bikes...they are idiot proof commuters,designed to fool you into thinking your watching a class race series.

You may prefer to watch shite GP racing but fucked if i'm gonna accept it.

Its a good class I talked to a guy on facebook racing a FTR in one of the europeon seires he reckons there awsome and he is a ex 125 racer

[rachprice]

Eh I never find the gp races boring!!

Man if only spies got a good start, I still think he wouldn't have won, but definitely a second!

Stoner is shitting on everyone!

[slowpoke]

But your fair frothing at the gash to prove a point in that post mate.

For all the "technical racebike" brouhaha you like to spew they are still ponderously slow production racebikes with frames made to fit around the same engine/airbox specs.These are not GP bikes...they are idiot proof commuters,designed to fool you into thinking your watching a class race series.

You may prefer to watch shite GP racing but fucked if i'm gonna accept it.

Haha, the perils of a slow night shift bro!

What're the options mate? Seriously. You're passionate like Jim and Pete, which is a good thing, but we can't do bugger all about it. I'd rather watch some racing than none.

It's just the way of the racing world, the only constant is change. Like when the multi's came along and relegated singles like the Manx Norton to history, and they had those sexy as fuck 6 cylinder 250 4 strokes which were banned, and 10 speed gearbox's on 125's with a power band 1000rpm wide were also banned. And imagine the outcry when Agostini jumped off the MV onto a smokey 2 stroke, and then MV were gone alltogether. And they restricted the 125 class to youngsters.......Change.

But even if I don't like the 600 proddy engines I can see the potential for Moto2 when everyone's cashed up again. Hopefully we'll get some pure protype engines from a whole swag of different manufacturers that have been brought into the fold with this stepping stone we have now. A field full of 180hp 135kg bikes ridden by crazy spanish kids won't be boring.

[eelracing]

I totally agree the one constant in GP racing is change.But it has always produced faster and technologically superior bikes.

My beef with Moto2 is not that the racing is boring (it's not)it is that the options available for manufacturers as well as the riders are limited by the engines.
You speak of everyone getting cashed up again,well I would'nt be holding my breath as that reasoning is flawed.
GP racing went through two golden era's depending on your age...The 50's when Europe was still reeling from the financial fallout of the War and the late 80's/90's with stockmarket crashes and resulting world wide recession.

So what has changed now?
Dorna has replaced the FIM and GP racing has become just an excuse to make money.Moto2 is a slower version of the pure racing class it has replaced and Elias is proof positive that it has nothing to add to rider skill.
125's are soon to be replaced by an even slower version in Moto3.But hey Honda's going to sell a shit load of 250's to the emerging Asian markets so it's all good right?

If racing was the priority then Moto2 should of been set at 600cc 4cyl and open to all who could qualify.But you and I and Dorna (and by association Honda)know that a BSL or a KR or even an old NSR 500V twin lying around gathering dust in a museum would clean up in the piss poor excuse that passes itself off as Moto2.

[slowpoke]

I totally agree the one constant in GP racing is change.But it has always produced faster and technologically superior bikes.

My beef with Moto2 is not that the racing is boring (it's not)it is that the options available for manufacturers as well as the riders are limited by the engines.
You speak of everyone getting cashed up again,well I would'nt be holding my breath as that reasoning is flawed.
GP racing went through two golden era's depending on your age...The 50's when Europe was still reeling from the financial fallout of the War and the late 80's/90's with stockmarket crashes and resulting world wide recession.

So what has changed now?
Dorna has replaced the FIM and GP racing has become just an excuse to make money.Moto2 is a slower version of the pure racing class it has replaced and Elias is proof positive that it has nothing to add to rider skill.
125's are soon to be replaced by an even slower version in Moto3.But hey Honda's going to sell a shit load of 250's to the emerging Asian markets so it's all good right?

If racing was the priority then Moto2 should of been set at 600cc 4cyl and open to all who could qualify.But you and I and Dorna (and by association Honda)know that a BSL or a KR or even an old NSR 500V twin lying around gathering dust in a museum would clean up in the piss poor excuse that passes itself off as Moto2.

I actually agree with a fair bit of what you're sayin', I'm just tryin' to look on the bright side, lol.

Elias has got me fucked. He was a world beater on his day in 250GP, finished 3rd(?) in the championship...something like that. Then goes and wins races in MotoGP on a privateer bike, which seems impossible now. I thought he was unlucky to lose his ride at the time. Cleans up in Moto2.........and then fails miserably on a well deserved comeback to MotoGP. WTF? He's a talented rider but something is seriously wrong in his team or his head for his performance this year.

[riffer]

He's a talented rider but something is seriously wrong in his team or his head for his performance this year.

True dat. It's not like he's on a Ducati!

[gixerracer]

I actually agree with a fair bit of what you're sayin', I'm just tryin' to look on the bright side, lol.

Elias has got me fucked. He was a world beater on his day in 250GP, finished 3rd(?) in the championship...something like that. Then goes and wins races in MotoGP on a privateer bike, which seems impossible now. I thought he was unlucky to lose his ride at the time. Cleans up in Moto2.........and then fails miserably on a well deserved comeback to MotoGP. WTF? He's a talented rider but something is seriously wrong in his team or his head for his performance this year.

It's the tyres. Same thing happened with Crafar on the Red Bull 500GP was great on dunlops and they changed to Shitchelins the next year and that ended Simons GP racing