Benefits

[mashman]

Yes some people are smarter than others, you don´t think so? Its not just repeating things parrot like from memory or books

I don´t think I could be a Doctor, Surgeon, Fast Jet Pilot or or run a multi million dollar company, pretty sure any of them can pick up rubbish or dig a hole, or even lay bricks with a bit of practice - its not rocket science - but rocket science is rocket science .

Not belittling anyone who does dig holes for a living, way more important than budging on the dole and a lot of smart people are quite happy doing manual labour.

Not inherently, no. I believe you can educate people to do anything. Some will become innovators, but innovation doesn't make them smarter than the next guy/gal. It just means they have thought about something in a slightly different way and come up with something new. They may well be as dumb as a box of spanners the rest of the time.

People find and enjoy different things, so as you mention "smart" folk may well end up enjoying the dole or diggin ditches or becoming rocket scientists (ain't there amateur clubs full of non-rocket scientist rocket scientists around the world?) ... our value system is so fucked up, the perception of value of 1 human over another that is, that we have the wrong people in the wrong jobs all over the world... some because they have a nice smile, some because they can parrot the talk, some because they haven't got the cash or time to retrain etc... I honeslty believe that given the time to retrain, I could be a Doctor/Surgeon/Jet Pilot/run a multi-million $$$ company etc... although I'd rather be a stay at home dad (probably retrain too, but am hamstrung by $$$) and actually think about my future instead of grinding the days out being relatively useless until the day I pop my clogs.

[racefactory]

Not inherently, no. I believe you can educate people to do anything. Some will become innovators, but innovation doesn't make them smarter than the next guy/gal. It just means they have thought about something in a slightly different way and come up with something new. They may well be as dumb as a box of spanners the rest of the time.

People find and enjoy different things, so as you mention "smart" folk may well end up enjoying the dole or diggin ditches or becoming rocket scientists (ain't there amateur clubs full of non-rocket scientist rocket scientists around the world?) ... our value system is so fucked up, the perception of value of 1 human over another that is, that we have the wrong people in the wrong jobs all over the world... some because they have a nice smile, some because they can parrot the talk, some because they haven't got the cash or time to retrain etc... I honeslty believe that given the time to retrain, I could be a Doctor/Surgeon/Jet Pilot/run a multi-million $$$ company etc... although I'd rather be a stay at home dad (probably retrain too, but am hamstrung by $$$) and actually think about my future instead of grinding the days out being relatively useless until the day I pop my clogs.

Yep it's a values system disorder. There is a particularly strong stigma against people on the dole in this country though. People are blind; they blame the dole bludgers for not contributing to the slave machine, while the powers that be continue to laugh upon us. We look up to our slave masters, the Wall St slobs who rape and pillage us from behind and instead we show disgust at fellow dustbin men who help keep our head and shoulders above the rot. They then just give us an election to keep us happy and lead us to believe we can change things, throw in a few terrorists that are jealous of our freedom and it's all hunkey dorey. Fucking tragic.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free.

.

[Banditbandit]

Some people could never make it as a Doctor, Lawyer, Brain Surgeon, Company Director. Some people are smarter than others. Communism doesn´t work, fact.

Where is your evidence that communism doesn't work .. given that there has never been a truly Communist country and Communism is only a stage in the progression from Capitalism to Socalism to Communism to the Dictatorship of the proletariat (unfortunate choice of Mr Marx for the final stage ...)

And which particular brand of Communism do you think will not work?

[Banditbandit]

Nice idea in theory, in the words of Frank Zappa

"communism doesn´t work because people like to own stuff".

I think China has a bigger gap between rich and poor than western societies.

Who said that in a Communist society peole could not own stuff? The concept of priv ate property as theft is actually an anarchist one - yes I will concede that Anarchism is also known as "libertarian communism" ... but apart from frank Zappa .. where did you get that idea from ?

[oldrider]

Where is your evidence that communism doesn't work .. given that there has never been a truly Communist country and Communism is only a stage in the progression from Capitalism to Socalism to Communism to the Dictatorship of the proletariat (unfortunate choice of Mr Marx for the final stage ...)

And which particular brand of Communism do you think will not work?

In the very nature of existence everything is constantly changing, so it should be for systems that man employs to assist in maintaining our symbiotic existence with nature.

There is no "one size fits all" system that can be constantly applied and expected to work all the time!

Constant surveillance, monitoring and adjusting should be carried out for the reasons of continuity and excellence in performance of the systems for all mankind.

We can send men to the moon but we can't manage our financial and economic systems?

Our (man's) natural thirst for greed and duplicity get in the way!

We are and always will be, our own worst enemy!

[avgas]

waaaaa ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... oh you are a rotter ... and likewise a Labourer building your house.

Likewise a doctor digging a hole

[Banditbandit]

In the very nature of existence everything is constantly changing, so it should be for systems that man employs to assist in maintaining our symbiotic existence with nature.

There is no "one size fits all" system that can be constantly applied and expected to work all the time!

Constant surveillance, monitoring and adjusting should be carried out for the reasons of continuity and excellence in performance of the systems for all mankind.

Ummm . errr .. you are describing some basic elements of the system most commonly called Communism ... at least in it's theory if not in any attempts at putting that into practice ..

We can send men to the moon but we can't manage our financial and economic systems?

A managed economic system? Shit - what a Communist idea ..

Our (man's) natural thirst for greed and duplicity get in the way!

We are and always will be, our own worst enemy!

Yes - I agree . and any system is doomed to failure because of that UNLESS the system is preapred to move and change ... as Marx's system was supposed to .. but guess what? The fucking ruling classes in a Communist system maintain the system to support themselves at the top .. just as those in a capitalist system do ..

[oldrider]

Yes - I agree . and any system is doomed to failure because of that UNLESS the system is preapred to move and change ... as Marx's system was supposed to .. but guess what? The fucking ruling classes in a Communist system maintain the system to support themselves at the top .. just as those in a capitalist system do ..

Totally agree, especially the last paragraph .. hmmm what to do about it!

If we could provide the perfect system, we would still have the problem of "the people behaviour" to deal with!

Not a good look aye!

[Banditbandit]

Totally agree, especially the last paragraph .. hmmm what to do about it!

If we could provide the perfect system, we would still have the problem of "the people behaviour" to deal with!

Not a good look aye!

Have a look at the political writings of Chantelle Mouffe and Ernesto Laclau .. they combine post-structuralism with a (a fuck the terminology)

They like Deomcracy - as do I - but reframe it as radical plural democracy rather than a Deliberative Democracy and in terms of a hegemonic practice of articulation - a post-structuralist incoroporation of Gramsci.

Shit .. I can't get away from the terminology - let me think , over caffeine and nicotine, about how to put this ...

[Clockwork]

.... as radical plural democracy rather than a Deliberative Democracy and in terms of a hegemonic practice of articulation - a post-structuralist incoroporation of Gramsci.

Bloody hell, Bud. Just how many languages do you speak?

[Coolz]

Likewise a doctor digging a hole

I have no problem with paying the doctor his dues,I put a high value on my health.Its those in jobs such as marketing,consulting,advertising and sharebroking that I have a problem with.They do nothing to enrich the value of our lives or the advancement of mankind,but surely take a bigger chunk of our paypackets than all the benifisheries.I mean,all their money comes from somewhere right? Usually out of the working mans pocket,hidden in the costs of goods and services. as for the man who dug the hole,it will still be dug,the drains still flowing,the foundations still standing long after he has gone to his paupers grave.

[Banditbandit]

Bloody hell, Bud. Just how many languages do you speak?

Yeah ... I know ...

[imdying]

Its those in jobs such as marketing, advertising that I have a problem with.

Ever tried to buy a badly marketed product?

[avgas]

I have no problem with paying the doctor his dues,I put a high value on my health.Its those in jobs such as marketing,consulting,advertising and sharebroking that I have a problem with.They do nothing to enrich the value of our lives or the advancement of mankind,but surely take a bigger chunk of our paypackets than all the benifisheries.I mean,all their money comes from somewhere right? Usually out of the working mans pocket,hidden in the costs of goods and services. as for the man who dug the hole,it will still be dug,the drains still flowing,the foundations still standing long after he has gone to his paupers grave.

I used to think like this. Then I started working in a job I didn't care much for. Found that clipping the ticket is far more rewarding.
Working men as you state are a rare thing. You will look for a long time for a working man that doesn't want to clip the ticket and simply get paid.
S'pose that is the difference between work and hobby. If you lucky you get paid to do a hobby.
FYI which pays a doctor (or hospital) more, the patient, the govt or the drug company?
In some regards doctors are marketers.

[jonbuoy]

Yep it's a values system disorder. There is a particularly strong stigma against people on the dole in this country though. People are blind; they blame the dole bludgers for not contributing to the slave machine, while the powers that be continue to laugh upon us. We look up to our slave masters, the Wall St slobs who rape and pillage us from behind and instead we show disgust at fellow dustbin men who help keep our head and shoulders above the rot. They then just give us an election to keep us happy and lead us to believe we can change things, throw in a few terrorists that are jealous of our freedom and it's all hunkey dorey. Fucking tragic.

None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free.

.

Dustbin men do a great job, its only people that choose not to work that are the problem.