Benefits

[Zedder]

Well the Greens policy announcement to do with this topic sounds interesting.....
100,000 jobs in the enviroment & in rebuilding Christchurchwww.greens.org.nz

Cool, go the Greens.

[mashman]

I think what FJ Rider was asking is does it mean it's an altruistic act (which a family member would be expected to do) or not.

If she's being paid a benefit it isn't as altruistic as doing it just for family without government assistance. Sure, she may have saved the tax payer $400k but it's not totally free for the taxpayer.

That's what I understood also... Does it make it any less altruistic because she's also drawing a benefit? I don't think so... after all she still needs money to pay for food, bills, fuel etc... same as anyone else (more so because she's an unofficial carer), and some won't have a parent to look after as the state will take care of that for them. The fact that she's saved the country money too is a bonus. In fact they should give her 200k for saving 400k.

Why does she have to be one or the other?

[puddytat]

Why does she have to be one or the other?

Its a Kiwi thing Bro,people struggle with anything other than a Black or White answer.....unless its the 2 main political parties with their fuck all difference policies

[Zedder]

That's what I understood also... Does it make it any less altruistic because she's also drawing a benefit? I don't think so... after all she still needs money to pay for food, bills, fuel etc... same as anyone else (more so because she's an unofficial carer), and some won't have a parent to look after as the state will take care of that for them. The fact that she's saved the country money too is a bonus. In fact they should give her 200k for saving 400k.

Why does she have to be one or the other?

I don't think she does but we haven't heard from FJ rider who asked the question in the first place.

[mashman]

Its a Kiwi thing Bro,people struggle with anything other than a Black or White answer.....unless its the 2 main political parties with their fuck all difference policies

you're right, but it ain't just a Kiwi thing... met plenty of black and white black and whiters in the UK... ultimate trust in what they know because they have heard it or read it etc... from a "reputable" source... so the accepted answer to the situation has already been defined by greater minds and therefore no shades of grey can exist and their opinion can be safely acknowledged as the truth... they have never had to figure it out for themselves, or have never taken the time out to do so... Shame the political parties feel the need to perpetuate the divide. Perhaps we should become German instead of Chinese

I don't think she does but we haven't heard from FJ rider who asked the question in the first place.

So was STILL getting PAID ... ???

If she was it was well below minimum wage. Isn't there a law against that

[FJRider]

If she was it was well below minimum wage. Isn't there a law against that

I understand that WINZ have a policy against family members being paid (by WINZ) carers, for another family member ...

[mashman]

I understand that WINZ have a policy against family members being paid (by WINZ) carers, for another family member ...

Fair point... kinda damned if they do and damned if they don't eh.

[Zedder]

At least she's not like the group of people in South Auckland who scammed the system for $2 million.

[puddytat]

I understand that WINZ have a policy against family members being paid (by WINZ) carers, for another family member ...

If I remember correctly, the Greens are planning to change that.....

[oOGixxerOo]

The DPB is quite good money for a solo parent. They get like $480 a week, everything subsidised (including daycare). This is the most funniest part, they can send their child to day car five times a week from 7.30 - 17.30 and then go home and do nothing. WINZ say they have requirements on the parents, that they have to do some kind of activitity that show they are working towards getting back to work but seldomly the WINZ officer will follow this up.

A person who's on minimum wage get like 900 dollars a fortnight with no subsidies. So I understand solo parents they choose the DPB, it leaves them more money..

[Disco Dan]

...Skidmark. Yep sorry, realise you have all probably managed to erase him from your memory!

...still the same, bludging off the tax payer. No intention to work. Has managed to get two cars over the past 6 months and systematically pulled them to bits... lost half of the bits and now sulking.

We HAVE to get tougher on these people.

[racefactory]

Why oh why do people never step out of the monetary paradigm when looking to solve problems? In this country it is acceptable to allow someone to starve or be homeless because they don't for whatever reason have money.

Einstein said 'You can not solve a problem with the same level of consciousness that created it'. If we try to beat poverty and welfare issues with money we are going to fail no matter what the plan. Money = debt in fractional reserve banking, someone is going to miss out on a dollar for every dollar spent.

How about a welfare that provides for the needs (housing, food, water and a relevant education) of people? rather than provides money for people.

Obviously we would be working in a monetary paradigm to implement a resource based approach but if NZ invested in the infrastructure to sustainably provide these basic needs the cost would be minimal after the initial investment.

Free top quality housing could be provided with contour crafting.
Free food could be provided with large scale vertical farming and hydroponics

The list could go on and on.

One needs to ask themselves though, why not just abandon money and take this approach for all of society, as basically everything in society today is geared towards making a monetary profit, presupposing that happiness and social well-being will follow.

NZ has roughly 4 million people and these people regardless of who they are need housing, however you can only get housing if you have money (buy or rent, this applies). Education, water, food- again, the most basic primitive needs and you can only get them if you have money. If people believe that in this day and age of technology and automation that we as a species still need to invest manual labour for profit in order to just house ourselves, get food and have water... then we need to further our education. What do you think will happen soon when a large portion of people have no hope of of even meeting basic human needs let alone wants in life? And we are heading down the shitter quickly now as the cost to live spirals higher, but then why should there even be a price tag to live at all apart from the cost to the environment we depend upon?

Our economic system is broken and doesn't support the majority but only a tiny portion of the population (Telecom CEO 5mil a Year, Telecom CSR $15/hr) Let's move to a resource based economy and solve our problems with science and not opinion. Everyone but the elite in this system is just a 'temporarily embarrassed millionare' that is going to make it big time someday.

We HAVE to get tougher on these people.

Everyone moaning about benefits and wanting to crack down on bludgers- you are but just puppets pleasing your masters. You people are blind; blaming the dole bludgers for not contributing to the slave machine, while the powers that be continue to laugh upon us. We look up to our slave masters, banking slobs who rape and pillage us from behind and instead we turn our nose up and show disgust at those who help and contribute to society. It's all a huge delusion surely? Besides, the far more important issue is not the fiscal leeching of our house of cards economy but rather the demographic problems that this mess is giving rise to. I suppose all you are worried about is your fucking tax money though.

[mashman]

oh FFS racefactory, stop using logic and asking KB'ers to think, let alone asking them to think at all ... that's why we have politicians...

I'm with ya though

[imdying]

Yeah, good post. The over population of the earth is just the worst case scenario of the tragedy of the commons.

The solution is quite simple. We need to exterminate as many humans as we possibly can in as short a time frame as we possibly can.

World war three isn't going to ruin humanity, it's going to save it.

[racefactory]

that's why we have politicians...

lol I know you're joking there but there are many people that sincerely believe this. That's another big delusion that we need to try think twice about. Really, how many more examples does NZ need to realise that these politicians don't give a toss about us?

-They don't know anything. Even if they were sincere about wanting to help the country they technically do not know how. Don't believe me ask one: How are you going to reduce the dole queue? How do you plan to ensure there is no corruption in government? All they can do is make laws, set budgets and declare war.

-They don't call the shots. We vote them in thinking they do but they don't. This country has a concept called "ownership", the people that own the various facilities which we need to survive and prosper call the shots: Telecom - telecommunications, Fonterra- dairy food, Banks- entire economy. Companies or capital owners are not subject to democracy (shock!), board elect their own members.

Politicians are put in place to keep things the same! They give us an election to keep us happy and lead us to believe we can change things, throw in a few terrorists that are jealous of our freedom and it's all hunkey dorey. So let's keep playing the 'Vote for this main party or that main party' game and be winners!

'None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who believe they are free'