I am disappointed the Crown has dropped charges against local terrorists

[Banditbandit]

Yep I am as European as the Maori in NZ are Hawaiians/Pacific Islanders.
I was born here, I grew up here under NZ rules.

Yes, we need to learn to live together in this country - that's what people like Tame wants too - just has a different way of getting there - and a justifiable anger on behalf of his people ... which I happen to share. I just gave up the radical politics years ago to actually go and do somthing real and effective. Constant protest is necessary but it has very long term results. Getting into education allowed me to directly affect people's lives here and now.

We need to affirm this as a nation - ditch the rest.

YES!!!!

Otherwise we should drop the whole thing and realize we are nation of nothing. The bitch island of the pacific rim and the monarchy retarded reject child. If we are lucky the US will bomb us and take us over, or the Chinese will buy us out.

That will not allow us to be a nation .. it just changes the colonizer ...

History is useless if it simply creates more conflict in the future.

Hmm .. to understand where we are now we have to look at how we got here ...

Would he egg others on while maintaining a safe distance & deniability Yes

I ran across Iti once, it left an indelible impression on myself & my wife. His intimidating & agressive demeanour to women & children makes him a coward in my book

I'd like to see all the information published

I'm not sure I like Tame personally (meet him a couple of times). I agree with his politic and actions - but he's certainly got issues himself - and his treatment of women and children is pretty typical Tuhoe Male ... most (probably white) women would find him a sexist pig ..

[admenk]

Pity the crown still here too.

Now I've only been here 4 years, so I stand to be corrected, but it strikes me that the phrase "the crown", is still used as a convenient way for the NZ govt to do something that's controversial whilst implying that the decision wasn't there's, but those colonial types back in dear old blighty!
As I understand it, "the crown" here is merely another term for the NZ govt, so why don't they just say that? Does the Queen (love her or loathe her) actually have anything to do with their decisions?

As I said, I'm probably wrong and there may be a legal reason why we still refer to "the crown". Can anybody enlighten me in plain English? (or even Te Reo if you give me time to translate!)

[BoristheBiter]

Tuhoe consider Te Urewera still belongs to them. And a lot of them still live off the land - hunting and gathering - and they are protective of what they see as their land.

I see it as a bit of white fear going on here. A bunch of Māori are running round the bush with guns - they have what can be seen to be anti-white sentiment - they are to be feared ...

Yes, they had camps in the bush - to hunt and gather and teach the yong people how to hunt and gather - and to keep the young people out of the towns and cities where they get into trouble. But the perception is a bunch of anti-white Māori are teaching kids to use guns ... Uh Oh .. raid them now ..

There's much scarier groups out there than Tuhoe and Tame ... Some of the right wing survivalist groups I've had contact with in the past are much much scarier ... and I know they have talked seriously about using their weapons in the past (I've had no contact for many years) ... people like Anders Breivik are much scareir and they do exist in Godzone ..

Actually i was meaning the gangs that are allowed to run freely within Maori, MM BP and the like.

We had been in the bush for around 4 days and when we came out the cars had been smashed, and I don't mean broken into and tried to be stolen, I mean there was not a straight panel left on the car.
Last time after 2 days we came out to a stand off with the guys that had stayed in camp and a bunch using stand over tactics to steal all the gear. lucky we came out when we did. they left we packed up quickly and as we were driving down the road they were heading back in with even more people.

As for Maori having camps in there i don't care, i think it is a good thing, but when it is for training hatred then that becomes the problem, but as we will have to wait to see i can see a lot of speculation instead of the truth.

[Banditbandit]

Now I've only been here 4 years, so I stand to be corrected, but it strikes me that the phrase "the crown", is still used as a convenient way for the NZ govt to do something that's controversial whilst implying that the decision wasn't there's, but those colonial types back in dear old blighty!
As I understand it, "the crown" here is merely another term for the NZ govt, so why don't they just say that? Does the Queen (love her or loathe her) actually have anything to do with their decisions?

As I said, I'm probably wrong and there may be a legal reason why we still refer to "the crown". Can anybody enlighten me in plain English? (or even Te Reo if you give me time to translate!)

Partly you are right "The Crown" is generally "The Government" ..

But try and suggest we become a Republic and see just how much "The Crown" in GodZone means the English Royal Family ..

[trustme]

I'm not sure I like Tame personally (meet him a couple of times). I agree with his politic and actions - but he's certainly got issues himself - and his treatment of women and children is pretty typical Tuhoe Male ... most (probably white) women would find him a sexist pig ..

The politics I can understand, the actions I can not be bothered with.

Some seek to rectify situations in a positive & constructive manner . Iti & his ilk are negative & destructive.
The pity of it is that they get all the attention while those doing the hard work & making a difference are ignored. Just the way the world works I guess

[Banditbandit]

Actually i was meaning the gangs that are allowed to run freely within Maori, MM BP and the like.

We had been in the bush for around 4 days and when we came out the cars had been smashed, and I don't mean broken into and tried to be stolen, I mean there was not a straight panel left on the car.
Last time after 2 days we came out to a stand off with the guys that had stayed in camp and a bunch using stand over tactics to steal all the gear. lucky we came out when we did. they left we packed up quickly and as we were driving down the road they were heading back in with even more people.

Yeah .. there's always going to be dickheads - of all colours and all races ...

[mashman]

Hmm .. to understand where we are now we have to look at how we got here ...

I disagree. imho, to understand where we are now we have to look at how far we've come, but measured against where we're going, not where we've been... unfortunately trying not to go broke seems to be the goal for the future... pretty pathetic considering what we have achieved under the shackles of budget constraints... ohhhhh to have money out of the equation.

[trustme]

Actually i was meaning the gangs that are allowed to run freely within Maori, MM BP and the like.

We had been in the bush for around 4 days and when we came out the cars had been smashed, and I don't mean broken into and tried to be stolen, I mean there was not a straight panel left on the car.
Last time after 2 days we came out to a stand off with the guys that had stayed in camp and a bunch using stand over tactics to steal all the gear. lucky we came out when we did. they left we packed up quickly and as we were driving down the road they were heading back in with even more people.

As for Maori having camps in there i don't care, i think it is a good thing, but when it is for training hatred then that becomes the problem, but as we will have to wait to see i can see a lot of speculation instead of the truth.

Standard practice if you are not a local. The locals cars usually get left alone.

[imdying]

I fail to see how the ceremonial firing of a gun on a marae during a powhiri can be illegal - and yes, I do know he was convicted.

Because we're not savages, we don't condone firing guns around randoms, and there's one law for everybody. Unless you're a child raping comedian. Or you need to travel to stay employed.

[avgas]

Now I've only been here 4 years, so I stand to be corrected, but it strikes me that the phrase "the crown", is.....

Crown is considered the law above the govt and its laws.
Handy if you want to deal with things as a third person. Useless as it means no one MANS UP and takes ownership.

Effectively leaving us all as headless chooks in NZ.

[imdying]

Yeah .. there's always going to be dickheads - of all colours and all races ...

The difference being, in New Zealand, you and all the other blacks just brush it off and sweep it under the carpet because they're people of the land or some shite.

Face it, the Maori people are the biggest racists in New Zealand.

[admenk]

Because we're not savages

I am

[avgas]

Hmm .. to understand where we are now we have to look at how we got here ...

I used to believe this.
But every nation that has followed this mantra simply repeats the same mistakes.

But prove me wrong. Point out one nation that has looked at its history and truly learned from its past and now is dreamland?
Only one I can think of is Germany - the whipping boy of Europe.

[trustme]

The difference being, in New Zealand, you and all the other blacks just brush it off and sweep it under the carpet because they're people of the land or some shite.

Face it, the Maori people are the biggest racists in New Zealand.

A small minority of Maori are racist, the same can be said of Pakeha.
The vast majority just want to get on with their life.

[HenryDorsetCase]

and his treatment of women and children is pretty typical Tuhoe Male ... most (probably white) women would find him a sexist pig ..

I just want to pick up on that point.

What it says is "Its ok to be a sexist, bullying fuckwit, as long as you're brown" You're implicitly making an excuse for this behaviour, and justifying it based on the "Its Ok, its a Maori thing" basis.

In my view, that is utterly wrong. Human rights trump the "rights" of a subgroup every time. In a larger context, that is why I believe that the sickly white liberal guilt that allowed the Waitangi Tribunal to start, to flourish, and now to become a gravy train for a dusky elite is entirely the wrong approach, and my own view is that "tribalism" is not a fit concept for any group of people to move forward in the 21st century. I also honestly think that a politician is a politician no matter what colour their skin. Lot of bullshit, lot of talking up "benefits for the people" but fuck all trickling down to actual punters walking down the street, brown black green pink or white.

So, um, there. Thats what I think.