Employment vs personal. A legal question.

[Oakie]

No I was talking about Tims wife feeling threatened. Not the fuck off situation.

. OK. I didn't go back over the old posts so probably missed the context.

[marty]

it depends on the context of the 'fuck off'

if she said 'hey did you hear that the warriers beat the storm?' and he said 'fuck off' in a disbeleiving tone, then it's probably ok.

if she said 'i've rostered you to work the night of the RWC final' and he said 'fuck off' then he's on thin ice.

if she said 'come upstairs with me and give it to me big boy' and he said 'fuck off', he's probably in a bit of trouble.

[Indiana_Jones]

Don't shit on your own back lawn.

-Indy

[DrunkenMistake]

Don't shit on your own back lawn.

-Indy

Tell that to my dog.

[Indiana_Jones]

Tell that to my dog.

lol you should tell him, with your foot up it's bum!

-Indy

[Flip]

Sounds to me like Nigel is not a very smart operator. Being at work, getting drunk and abusing a supervisor on his day off, well how does he expect this will end? (Insert my favorite Homer quote here).

The only reason he probably hasn't been dismissed is his employer doesn't have a replacement for him yet. It's almost impossible to dig yourself out of a serious misconduct dismissal for doing this, unless he has a brilliant relationship with the business owner.

Poor old Nigel time to start looking for a new job. He is fucked .

One thing you haven't told us is, what is the relationship between Ms Sluttypants and the business owner?

[JMemonic]

Don't shit on your own back lawn.

-Indy

Orly, tell that to thousands of Christchurch residents that had to recently, or the hundreds the still have to.

[Jantar]

There is a very good reason why staff in the hospitality industry generally don't drink at their place of work. Nigel may be about to find out that reason.

[ellipsis]

1. I thought it was a given that chefs think they have a licence to be obnoxious whenever they liked and that clause would be written into their contracts..

2) I thought everyone knew chefs have a licence to be obnoxious..

3) If he is a good chef, he wouldnt have any problem getting a new job...

4) Alcohol is the major cause of most peoples interactive work/social problems...

5) If he was not the "obnoxious" party in this trivia, he ain't a real chef..

[Indiana_Jones]

Orly, tell that to thousands of Christchurch residents that had to recently, or the hundreds the still have to.

I think some people are a bit too literal....

-Indy

[Indiana_Jones]

1. I thought it was a given that chefs think they have a licence to be obnoxious whenever they liked and that clause would be written into their contracts..

2) I thought everyone knew chefs have a licence to be obnoxious..

3) If he is a good chef, he wouldnt have any problem getting a new job...

4) Alcohol is the major cause of most peoples interactive work/social problems...

5) If he was not the "obnoxious" party in this trivia, he ain't a real chef..

Is 'fatt max' a chef.........?

-Indy

[tigertim20]

Complaint to the Dept of Labour under Health and Well being will get it sorted. Owner will think twice when facing fines. You dont have to put up with that crap these days.

The problem with taking action like that, especially in the hospo industry, is that your name receives a big, black mark, and the chances of getting other employment with ease is slim. Ive worked in hospo here myself, and seen how often 'making waves' like that results in 'find another type of work' because you basically get an unofficial blacklisting by the hospo industry. Its also difficult when the slutbag and the higher management/owners are best of friends, and will simply close ranks. It means the chances of you getting any vindication are slim, and theyll will simply ride you harder till you give up and leave, or they catch you out on something borderline that they can fire you for.

Refer back to the original post:
During the course of the evening, Nigel gets a tad drunk.
Nigel says to slutbag 'fuck off'.

1) A kitchen hand (a.k.a. 'a dishpig') sees a chef he had an argument with earlier that day at the pub. Follows him out at some stage and smacks him in the face. HISTORY!

2) An off duty waiter not even on a work day has a bit of an altercation with a guest while drinking in the house bar. Slugs the guest and is ... HISTORY. This last one saw the withdrawl of Tequila from the facility for a long time.

Ahhh, happy days at Mt Cook!

Dunno about you, but Id consider Assault to be somewhat more serious than telling someone to fuck off!!

Sounds to me like Nigel is not a very smart operator. Being at work, getting drunk and abusing a supervisor on his day off, well how does he expect this will end? (Insert my favorite Homer quote here).

The only reason he probably hasn't been dismissed is his employer doesn't have a replacement for him yet. It's almost impossible to dig yourself out of a serious misconduct dismissal for doing this, unless he has a brilliant relationship with the business owner.

Poor old Nigel time to start looking for a new job. He is fucked .

One thing you haven't told us is, what is the relationship between Ms Sluttypants and the business owner?

slutbag and the higher management/owners are very very good friends, have been for years, which contributes to slutbag being such a... slutbag. She can get away with it. Numerous complaints have been made in the past, of course nothing happens, or slutbag simply throws a counterclaim out there, and guess whose claim is given weight? . . .

As soon as circumstances change enough, wifey will be outta there, Hopefully 'Nigel' has the sense to get out too, but for wifey at least, leaving right now isnt really an option for us

[george formby]

1. I thought it was a given that chefs think they have a licence to be obnoxious whenever they liked and that clause would be written into their contracts..

2) I thought everyone knew chefs have a licence to be obnoxious..

3) If he is a good chef, he wouldnt have any problem getting a new job...

4) Alcohol is the major cause of most peoples interactive work/social problems...

5) If he was not the "obnoxious" party in this trivia, he ain't a real chef..

Even Chefs grow up at some point, usually after abusing / rogering a supervisor whilst intoxicated & off duty & living with the consequences. Slow learners maybe, but if they are in the industry long enough they do learn. Yes, I am speaking from experience. Anybody remember the TV series The Lakes?

[Winston001]

Tell "Nigel" to look up russellmcveagh.com there's a section on out of hours behaviour.

Yes, good suggestion. Its a good article, only three pages long, and give examples of cases of misconduct outside work.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=...TRvkrK0w&pli=1

This falls under the terms of "Serious Misconduct". Most Employment Agreements will contain clauses on this, and will include references to "Harassment or abuse of a work colleague or customer".

Well said and even wider than that - Undermining the trust and confidence between employer and employee. Its general law not even required to be stated in an employment agreement.

IMHO for what its worth, Nigel is on the back foot. He can be given a valid warning. Dismissal is a whole level above that and could be argued against.

The reason is that employment law is fundamentally aimed at protecting people from losing their jobs. On the bare facts, Nigel would succeed but its a close call. Thank goodness we have eager employment lawyers FTW.

[fuknKIWI]

XTC - Making Plans For Nigel