Don Brash: "We should decriminalise marijuana"

[husaberg]

Stats for what?
I'm not saying the judicial system targets anyone, that's not their function is it?
Why wouldn't people start paying tax and gst? They do for alcohol. Why would you do anything differrent for marijuana? Have a look at Portugals drug laws and societal response in answer to your research requirement... and they did it for EVERY drug. Here's one I posted earlier... it was on Page 1.
I'd rather we shifted away from booze and I see marijuana as the lesser of 2 evils. who knows, people may actually make their own minds up and do neither ...
Then educate the current and subsequent generations properly. No mixed message then.

I had a look and yes some of the figures could be construed as a declining but they would have to be compared with other countries where it wasn't decriminalized. Remember Heroin use is on the decline the other drugs are really mentioned. HIV rates are dropping with education in the western world.The article you quoted is an article written to sell the story and influence opinion not statistics.NZ doesn't target users they are often given the option of treatment or sent to treatment and are rarely if eversent to jail for possession for own use.
Legitimisising drug use doesn't make the problems go away. Sigma isn't the problem.
Alcohol gathers revenue as there is not a huge already established black market in it sales and distribution do you think all of a sudden these people will go legit really?

[mashman]

I had a look and yes some of the figures could be construed as a declining but they would have to be compared with other countries where it wasn't decriminalized. Remember Heroin use is on the decline the other drugs are really mentioned. HIV rates are dropping with education in the western world.Thats an article written to sell the story and influence opinion not statistics.

Alcohol gathers revenue as there is not a huge already established black market in it sales and distribution do you think all of a sudden these people will go legit really?

Sure, the article is tainted by the "statistical" results of a 10 year study needing to be fudged so that it looks like only 1 place on the face of the planet has shown that decriminalisation works. I'd say you were in denial, but you'd just deny that . You can always change the law back if it doesn't work.

Alcohol gathers revenue, so that makes it alright? It also claws back vast chunks of that revenue in the damage it causes... If you want a cafe/bar in the city, then you're gonna have to be legit and pay gst and taxes. It is a social drug, just like alcohol. And not everyone sits at home and gets stoned by themselves. The legal highs, before they banned them, were making a fortune. Why? Is it because they were legal?

[Berries]

I'd prefer marijuana legalisation, but will settle for decriminalisation.

Nah. Bill Hicks had it right. Cannabis should be compulsory.

[mashman]

Nah. Bill Hicks had it right. Cannabis should be compulsory.

t'would certainly make Parliament TV worth watching.

[husaberg]

Sure, the article is tainted by the "statistical" results of a 10 year study needing to be fudged so that it looks like only 1 place on the face of the planet has shown that decriminalisation works. I'd say you were in denial, but you'd just deny that . You can always change the law back if it doesn't work.

Alcohol gathers revenue, so that makes it alright? It also claws back vast chunks of that revenue in the damage it causes... If you want a cafe/bar in the city, then you're gonna have to be legit and pay gst and taxes. It is a social drug, just like alcohol. And not everyone sits at home and gets stoned by themselves. The legal highs, before they banned them, were making a fortune. Why? Is it because they were legal?

You have lost me sorry .But laws are really changed back unfortunately to many legal cans of worms.
what I am saying is. that article contains no where near enough information to make a decision. it is a snapshot that does not show any comparisons with real time figures from a country with similar demographics and make comparisons it does not show all the drug use it only gives a small part of the picture. It looks promising for your hypothesis but is incomplete data and therefor tainted. Sorry its not sour grapes.
I could give you statistics that suggest that since milk was pastured the divorce rate has gone up over 80%.But that is just an example of using statistics not in there full context in a way that suits But the figures are there.The birth rate has gone down to.
There was no legal black market highs was there established to compete against the legal (at the time) ones was there?
Lastly have never suggested Alcohol is great.

[Coolz]

Decriminalising Marijuana does not make it legal. It will still be an offence,but a civil offence not a criminal one.Much like a speeding one,it will be dealt with a ticket,instant fine.This frees up the costly court system and generates revenue. This only applies to very small amounts of marijuana.Growing,selling,and possesing larger amounts would still be a criminal offence and treated the same as it is now. This is what Don Brash is proposing. P and crack cocaine are irrelevant to this discussion. If you have a teenager going through the experimenting stage would you rather have it dealt with a civil fine or a criminal record for life?

[superman]

Sorry I missed your post Well said and Yes I was meaning illegal drugs
Alcohol was posted in relation to I guess the poster thought the lowering of the drinking age was a great idea
The smoking during pregnancy was a pun on "Labour party" You are not the only one who missed it.
Yes we have both a drinking and drug problem with our youth making them more readily accessible and decriminalizing there use and lowering ages is not the answer.
Re the child never ostracizing, but not thats its ok either as my "mate" here above says.

All the ideals really rest on solid education of the population and increased awareness of risks. You can see with smoking (which I guess you could loosely classify as a drug due to the stimulation received (no pun intended)) that numbers are decreasing steadily and there are those who still choose to smoke. Do those who still wish to even after knowing all the ill effects not deserve the right to still smoke in their property? And there's always those who might enjoy a cigar 3-4 times a year, nom nom. Should they not be allowed to smoke either?

[StoneY]

Crack cocaine is Crack cocaine it is a unrefined form of coke I never called it Meth

Then dude if you're talking NZ drugs wake the fuck up and start demonstrating you have some understanding of the scene..

In 30 years of hanging round people who enjoy various substances that may or may not be legal, I have seen Cocaine ONCE! (Let alone CRACK ffs!)
I have been witness to the vile display of P (Meth) smoking too many times to count. I have never seen Crack in NZ (although I have in America)

If you are going to flog an opinion about social substance abuse in this country make sure you are talking about the correct chemical pack.

Further, as mentioned by another poster back there a bit this is about POT, not class A narcotic abuse, or class B either (although if anyone mentions hashish or cannabis oil there is room to move there)

So...compare apples to apples or quit trying to sound like a fucked up Dr Phil.

[husaberg]

Then dude if you're talking NZ drugs wake the fuck up and start demonstrating you have some understanding of the scene..

In 30 years of hanging round people who enjoy various substances that may or may not be legal, I have seen Cocaine ONCE! (Let alone CRACK ffs!)
I have been witness to the vile display of P (Meth) smoking too many times to count. I have never seen Crack in NZ (although I have in America)

If you are going to flog an opinion about social substance abuse in this country make sure you are talking about the correct chemical pack.

Further, as mentioned by another poster back there a bit this is about POT, not class A narcotic abuse, or class B either (although if anyone mentions hashish or cannabis oil there is room to move there)

So...compare apples to apples or quit trying to sound like a fucked up Dr Phil.

Yeah dude
Why don't you take the time to go back to where I was quoted and see why it was mentioned. I never brought up Cocaine have a look and then apologise later

[mashman]

You have lost me sorry .But laws are really changed back unfortunately to many legal cans of worms.
what I am saying is. that article contains no where near enough information to make a decision. it is a snapshot that does not show any comparisons with real time figures from a country with similar demographics and make comparisons it does not show all the drug use it only gives a small part of the picture. It looks promising for your hypothesis but is incomplete data and therefor tainted. Sorry its not sour grapes.
I could give you statistics that suggest that since milk was pastured the divorce rate has gone up over 80%.But that is just an example of using statistics not in there full context in a way that suits But the figures are there.The birth rate has gone down to.
There was no legal black market highs was there established to compete against the legal (at the time) ones was there?
Lastly have never suggested Alcohol is great.

Rarely changed back does not mean NEVER, and is a poor excuse.
The fact that you can say that pasteurised milk is linked to the divorce rate shows that you will ignore any statistics put before you that you don't personally see as having the remotest possibility of being valid.
Here you show your true ignorance. A similar demographic? I can do one better than that. Portugal is populated by Human Beings that make their own decisions about what they put into their bodies. They have made their choices and the results seem to support that the affects of their law change on the country have potentially been for the better. Portugal is not some small control experiment (unlike the statistics the govt use), it's a whole country and the experiment has been going for the last 10 years. NZ is full of Human Beings too, that's a pretty fundamental demographic. You can't package people into neat little boxes, as you attempt to do, that's why you hide behind the need for statistics.

Your dismissal of the Portugal "experiment", the need for statistical demographic driven information and your work in the judicial systems shows how one-eyed, and prejudiced, you are on the subject of marijuana use and its legal status. Pretty poor considering you're supposed to be a logical rational human being.

[Brett]

So the end of the mafia territorial wars over the bootleging of liquor was a step backwards dude?
The massive drop in drug related crime in central Europe when Amsterdam made it known it was being 'less observant' of its drug enforcement?
The change in cultural behaviour in the states throughout the US where its been either decriminalized or medicinally available?
The fact the cops in the UK are now able to issue a street warning as opposed to wasted time booking and prosecuting (and they consider Heroin a Class B)

Pull YOUR head in ya twat....there are shitloads of examples where relaxing the enforcement on social level drugs such as Cannabis has made a huge positive change.

By the standards enforced on pot heads, alcohol and tobacco need to be made class B substances and banned forever as well...cant have it BOTH ways, and for the first time ever in his political existence I find myself agreeing with Brash....on THIS topic anyway.

Be interesting to see if he wins any votes though...somehow I don't think he will.

Lots of claims, not interesting in referencing the authority behind those? Your mafia bootlegging claim is hardly even pertinent. Agreed, tighter laws on tobacco and alcohol are needed. The difference between pot and alcohol is that you can have a couple of drinks over dinner or such and have lost no mental cognition, the same is not true with pot or any other illegal drug.

[Brett]

Decriminalising, is not legalising........

And I do NOT disagree with decriminalisation at all.

[Brett]

Easy. The legalisation of alcohol in the USA - 1933.

It significantly reduced crime and increased tax revenue.

And significantly increased consumption.

[oneofsix]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/america...ot-to-citizens

[scissorhands]

I thought you guys were bikers, not a bunch of pussies

Next you'll be in favour of religious programming....

And supporting the role of a black market, gangs, territory, violence

Mexico in NZ?

oh wait...