Don Brash: "We should decriminalise marijuana"

[Teflon]

[mashman]

Of course there is medical usage of it, and yes, I do a lot of study and research. I fully support all research into the medicinal properties of plants and wish there were more into many of the traditiopnal medicines by indigenous populations of many countries.

Drug companies don't need to sell anything illegal as if they extract the ingredients and isolate the beneficial properties, developing a medicinal drug it would be simply going through the normal testing and approval processess in place.

What the drug companies are looking for, is not only medical effectiveness but also cost effectiveness and whether there is a similar drug that does the same job already in wide use. They are continuing to explore the medical possibilities of Cannabis and other plants and are far more objective than recreational users ever could be.

My point here is that the ones who are most vocal and biased towards Cannabis are those who smoke it for recreation and want it legalised for that purpose. They are not interested in whether there is an effective alternative or in the medical properties as separated from the whole plant.

Ya see, the funny thing is the indigenous didn't have the same methods of delivery. What makes you think that taking any property from any plant and creating a synthetic version is any better than using the plant in the same way the indigenous used to... which was what? How did they seperate the good properties from the bad?

So I only want it legalised so I can smoke it? Whilst that's a part truth, similar to someone having a beer, or a glass of wine (or disco biscuit), and whilst marijuana is widely acknowledged as being less detrimental to society than alcohol, and whilst I may well, by default, be medicating myself, surely that can only be for the benefit of society as a whole? Me working that is, me not being ill, me not getting pissed out of my tiny mind when I want to get "wasted" and doing things I will not only regret but quite possibly have no memory of and could possibly kill myself doing... the lesser of 2 evils? Why shouldn't I be allowed to?

Are you pro-alcohol?

[Scuba_Steve]

Unfortunately the Schiz is real... all too real. I had a friend, read had as passed away, who moved away from everyone and would go for anyone who came through his door, including his family. Now I'm not saying it was his marijuana use, but I certainly wouldn't rule it out... we used to smoke, A LOT! He was one of the most gentle souls I had ever met, anyone had ever met. Had everything going for him, played guitar, got the hot chicks etc... but in the end... meh, who knows what finally did him in, he really didn't make much sense towards the end. My final image of him was of him sitting by a radiator, knees folded to his chest and in some other world. It still brings tears to my eyes. But people become Schiz for entirely different reasons... fortunately, the numbers are low and no amount of legislation is going to stop people from taking stuff that they want to take.

Edit: for the record, he was 22.

I have a friend in very similar circumstances. He might be 1 in 1000 but the weed definitely doesn't agree with him. One puff and he would end up in the psych ward for a month it affected him so badly. I remember a conversation I had with one of his doctors and him telling me that if it wasn't for pot 2/3 of the patients wouldn't be in there. What he also remarked on was the effects of alcohol and how it was far more insideous, damage from which cost the health system much more, and left some with far greater health issues.

He also acknowledged that for many the use of cannibis was in fact the much better choice of the two, and from a medicinal point of view can be used to treat more than one condition (including psychiatric) far better than any other available drug.

As for my mate, he sticks to booze and the odd E nowadays and is happy as a pig in the proverbial.

This does not make weed a bad thing that all should be forced to avoid however.

There are far more people who are allergic to penicillin, does that mean we should outlaw antibiotics?

I can back up those skitzo claims, I've had a couple of mates whom bounce in & out because of the dope, or at-least thats the only thing that changed pre & post skitzo

If cannabis was as good as every user says it is it would have been seized upon by drug companies who would have developed very effective painkillers from it. All those who support it are smokers who want to keep on smoking it.

Any talk of medicinal benefits is simply an attempt to justify using it as a recreational drug. Dope has been probably more thoroughly investigated than any other drug and the only supporters, are as I said, the ones smoking it for pleasure.

One thing you do have to consider is drug companies aint only interested in finding something that works, they have a vested interest in making sure you can't get it anywhere else. Simply packaging up say THC in a pill won't cut it, it's effectively available elsewhere at a much cheaper price.

As for it's "medicinal" properties I do believe it has some (like booze) but much of it is placebo effect (which hey if it works so be it) or like your suggesting "exaggerated" for argument.

[Edbear]

Ya see, the funny thing is the indigenous didn't have the same methods of delivery. What makes you think that taking any property from any plant and creating a synthetic version is any better than using the plant in the same way the indigenous used to... which was what? How did they seperate the good properties from the bad?

So I only want it legalised so I can smoke it? Whilst that's a part truth, similar to someone having a beer, or a glass of wine (or disco biscuit), and whilst marijuana is widely acknowledged as being less detrimental to society than alcohol, and whilst I may well, by default, be medicating myself, surely that can only be for the benefit of society as a whole? Me working that is, me not being ill, me not getting pissed out of my tiny mind when I want to get "wasted" and doing things I will not only regret but quite possibly have no memory of and could possibly kill myself doing... the lesser of 2 evils? Why shouldn't I be allowed to?

Are you pro-alcohol?

I doubt you'll find many indigenous people using plants for medicine who mainly use them for recreational mind altering.

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless. I have done objective research from all levels of concern, from the drug companies to the law enforcers and law makers to the health professionals, and it is very clear that smokers are not only risking all the usual types of cancer as with smoking tobacco and chewing betel nut but unlike tobacco, it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible because of the obvious effects on society, but drinking wine or beer, per se, does not carry with it any notable health risks. It is only the excessive consumption that does so. That, naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot. It is not inherently bad for the health.

[blackdog]

and it is very clear that smokers are not only risking all the usual types of cancer as with smoking tobacco and chewing betel nut

No problems there for me. I prefer it in cookie form.

It can also be inhaled through a hydrator that negates that risk.

[husaberg]

All the ideals really rest on solid education of the population and increased awareness of risks. You can see with smoking (which I guess you could loosely classify as a drug due to the stimulation received (no pun intended)) that numbers are decreasing steadily and there are those who still choose to smoke. Do those who still wish to even after knowing all the ill effects not deserve the right to still smoke in their property? And there's always those who might enjoy a cigar 3-4 times a year, nom nom. Should they not be allowed to smoke either?

Whist loosely a stimulant mmmm....I think its the addiction to nicotene rather than the stimulate effect that drives the compulsion for a smoker to smoke.
The tobacco smoking has decreased I believe with better education and controls over use (age) advertising etc but I would say the largest reason is the law reforms around where you can smoke and to a much larger extent the cost which has escalated hugely in the last 20-25 years far ahead of inflation.When I was young I believe the cheapest cigarettes were 1/3 of the miniumim wage /hour/20 pack now they would be on par I guess with the minimum wage/hour some one might be better placed to list the cost but I remember the cheapest When I was a school was either $2 or $3 in 91 Pacific?

What drives a the minority of the NZ population that regularly smokes dope to smoke it. can anyone answer that question?

[Madness]

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless............ it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

I can assure you Ed that it doesn't cause even the slightest amount of paranoia in a large percentile of regular users.

I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible............. naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot.

Much like alcohol, Cannabis use affects different people in different ways. Perhaps a lot of "recreational users" simply feel they deserve the same freedom as a person who consumes alcohol responsibly - when they're having a puff after a hard day's work, probably watching Coro Street in their slippers,

[Mad-V2]

The alcohol you buy at the supermarket in front of your children has no beneficial properties that help people in society, medical or otherwise. Yet it is left alone to kill and mame countless people every day of every year around the world. Most people who drink it do so to feel it's affects, otherwise alcohol free beer and wine would be selling 100% better than it does now.
The only thing people don't like about weed is that a large number of people like to have a good time on it. So the fun police decided to outlaw it. But even though you can have fun on it, it can be a very helpful to society in all it's other forms like medicine and even fuel for our vehicles. The current Green clean bio fuel shit is worse than oil in my opinion as it's creating more deforestation and wiping out endangered species.
Why the hell are people so against something that helps in so many ways? Imagine if your average Joe found a way to get stoned off corn, would we ban that too?

[Mad-V2]

Most of the people I know who smoke pot only do so as there is no legal drugs other than alcohol that can give them the same affect, minus the anger, blackouts and car crashes

[mashman]

I doubt you'll find many indigenous people using plants for medicine who mainly use them for recreational mind altering.

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless. I have done objective research from all levels of concern, from the drug companies to the law enforcers and law makers to the health professionals, and it is very clear that smokers are not only risking all the usual types of cancer as with smoking tobacco and chewing betel nut but unlike tobacco, it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible because of the obvious effects on society, but drinking wine or beer, per se, does not carry with it any notable health risks. It is only the excessive consumption that does so. That, naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot. It is not inherently bad for the health.

How do you know they didn't use plants for recreation? And I'd love to have this, marijuana driven, mind altering experience you speak of. How does it alter someone's mind? Paranoia. Is that it? There are plenty of people on this planet that don't "smoke" and suffer from paranoia...

Apparantly Cancer is also genetic, you can get Cancer from household cleaning products, you can get Cancer for no reason whatsoever. Shouldn't I be allowed to take my chances?

No health risk associated with alcohol, other than it can kill you, but only in excess? It can bring on paranoia. You don't have to abuse alcohol to get alcohol poisoning. You don't have to abuse alcohol to destroy your liver. Pretty notable health risks I'd say... but as you say, that varies from person to person... as do the affects of marijuana use and abuse on the user/abuser. If not, I'd truly like to hear why not?

Yet taking marijuana is inherently bad for your health? Smoking is smoking, we're not talking about smoking, there are many other methods. I have by far worse side effects from alcohol than I do from marijuana... and through my use I have found that marijuana offers me health benefits like weight loss and management, a peaceful sleep, snapping management, and a jolly good buzz on occassion (something I can get from taking sleeping pills and not going to sleep ). I derive more out of that plant than alcohol gives me by a long way. Yet I'm not allowed to give myself those benefits, and for no good reason it seems.

[StoneY]

........ but unlike tobacco, it affects the mind and causes among other things, paranoia.

What you say about me dude?!!!

I class misuse of alcohol as reprehensible because of the obvious effects on society, but drinking wine or beer, per se, does not carry with it any notable health risks.

Liver disease, alcohol poisoning, bowel cancer...yeah no risk at all huh?
Legal definition of overuse of alcohol is? I don't think here is one...and I aint seen anyone die from overdosing on weed man, happens every month from booze.

It is only the excessive consumption that does so. That, naturally, varies from person to person of course. Some can't handle any alcohol, others quite a lot. It is not inherently bad for the health.

Well I disagree with you there I have seen far more social harm from alcohol than any amount of cannabis use..... and one of those substances is legal despite being a PROVEN killer....
Paranoid or dead...big difference Ed and if YOU are claiming alcohol is harmless (other than the over users and I would love to see that factor defined) I suggest you spend some time in a rehab unit interviewing the pot heads that are drying out...

oh wait! There aint any is there?
Maybe you can talk to the drunks then and identify the point where a social drink becomes an addiction for us all huh?

[husaberg]

The only thing people don't like about weed is that a large number of people like to have a good time on it. So the fun police decided to outlaw it. But even though you can have fun on it, it can be a very helpful to society in all it's other forms like medicine and even fuel for our vehicles. The current Green clean bio fuel shit is worse than oil in my opinion as it's creating more deforestation and wiping out endangered species.
Why the hell are people so against something that helps in so many ways? Imagine if your average Joe found a way to get stoned off corn, would we ban that too?

Its called Bourbon isn't it?

With you on the Bio fuel same with the hybrids and Electric cars they cause more pollution esp in Europe.

[mashman]

What you say about me dude?!!!

whew, thank fuck for that, I thought he was talking about me

[Mad-V2]

Its called Bourbon isn't it?

With you on the Bio fuel same with the hybrids and Electric cars they cause more pollution esp in Europe.

I was meaning what if your average Joe found you could get stoned from smoking corn? would we then ban it, remember alcohol is legal.

And the bio fuel shit I'm talking about is the palm oil crap, the stuff that people cut down rainforest's to grow to "save the environment". You know the rainforest's that filter our air and stuff.
And battery powered cars use the power we generate from burning coal which pollutes our air in order to "save the environment"
Hemp can be used in the same way and grows in any climate
But it's a nasty evil illegal weed and should be eradicated aye.

[Scuba_Steve]

If I remember right it's the usefulness of hemp that cause both it & weed to be banned, american cotton industry (& to a lesser extent the tobacco industry) & maybee the paper industry??? were worried about their incomes, weed was the excuse to ban hemp... I'm pretty sure thats how it went anyways (haven't really looked into it to be honest)