Don Brash: "We should decriminalise marijuana"

[Edbear]

dammit why!?!?!?!?!

Karma and you reap what you sow.

[superman]

Therein lies one of the issues. As with so many "personal" choices, claims we are "not hurting anyone else" are in fact untrue. What we do and say, always affects someone else for either good or bad, and we have to decide how selfish we wish to be in pursuing our desires.

Very few, it seems are willing to show restraint for the common good, rather insisting on "their rights" to do as they please and everyone else can suck eggs.

Whether one agrees or not, the law is the law as decided in a democtratic society and we are, as citizens of said society, bound by them. Rebell and you get punished.

Marijuana enjoyed responsibly as with alcohol does not affect others negatively. The reason it was outlawed in the first place was so a rope makers would't lose all their money to a plant which can be used for paper/rope etc and is extremely efficient at growing rapidly. Even now you must apply for a license to grow THC free cannabis...

We won't get punished if the people in the society want the law changed. The poll on stuff has over 75% for the decriminilizing of marijuana.

[scissorhands]

Cops Accused Of Eating Man's Pot Brownies, Bragging About It
By Simon McCormack, The Huffington Post - Tuesday, September 27 2011



Two Houston police officers could be asking "dude, where's my credibility?" after a suspect accused them of eating his pot brownies.

Nicholas Hill, 19, claims that Houston cops took his brownies, that they knew were laced with marijuana, and munched away after arresting the teen for pot possession.

ABC 13 found something more substantial than just Hill's claim. The station reports that it has obtained messages typed by the officers on their in-car computers after confiscating and consuming the baked goods.

"So HIGH... Good munchies," one officer supposedly wrote. "Everything should be open when we get done," the other responded.

One of Hill's defense attorneys, Daniel Cahill, told The Huffington Post that, if his client's accusations prove to be true, they could have very serious consequences.

"If what is alleged is true then it really calls into question everything that went on that day," Cahill said. "If we have police destroying evidence or maybe not following the rules that they need to be following, that brings into question the integrity of the system and everything these guys have done, possibly."

Houston Police Department spokesperson John Cannon told HuffPost that the department would not speculate on what penalties the officers would face if the accusations are found to be accurate.

"HPD is looking into the matter and will conduct a thorough investigation," Cannon said.

The officers remain on active duty while the investigation takes place, according to Cannon.
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Cahill said that, until the investigation is finished, it's unclear what will happen with his client's case.

"We're waiting on the investigation before we can really move," he said. "We're stuck in a holding pattern."

[oneofsix]

Marijuana enjoyed responsibly as with alcohol does not affect others negatively. The reason it was outlawed in the first place was so a rope makers would't lose all their money to a plant which can be used for paper/rope etc and is extremely efficient at growing rapidly. Even now you must apply for a license to grow THC free cannabis...

We won't get punished if the people in the society want the law changed. The poll on stuff has over 75% for the decriminilizing of marijuana.

Rope making grew up on hemp (marijuana). I thought it was the southern cotton growers. Their product was in decline and hemp was seen as a competitor. The hippie generation were wearing hemp clothing.
Also its use (the reefer) was seen as spreading from the black musicians to the white kids causing them to drop out and become hippies. Whilst it was only the underclass using it it was tolerated.

[MisterD]

Where I do disagree is the claim, and again it is made by mainly recreational users, that Cannabis is relatively harmless.

Ed, this is the Lancet* Drug Harm Index...



*You know, the leading medical journal in the world...

[Deano]

I thought solvents and ecstacy would rate higher than pot.

I don't know of anyone admitted to hospital from smoking a doobie - unless they were asthmatic or fell over and hurt themselves.

I've seen a doco on tv about solvent abuse - total brain melt down after a few years.

And some people can't handle their e either.

BUT - look where out friend alcohol sits.

Edit - sorry I can think of an example - schizophenics.

[oneofsix]

I thought solvents and ecstacy would rate higher than pot.

I don't know of anyone admitted to hospital from smoking a doobie - unless they were asthmatic or fell over and hurt themselves.

I've seen a doco on tv about solvent abuse - total brain melt down after a few years.

And some people can't handle their e either.

BUT - look where out friend alcohol sits.

careful Deano. First you reason there is something suspect about the graph then you point to it.
I also note a step in the graph when you get to Cannabis.
There has been a lot a research on alcohol and on tobacco but the illegal drugs, whilst there has been some research, it has not been as exhaustive and people reporting to Hospital are more likely to blame other factors. Also the Lancet being British with the British suffer the same poor record with alcohol as ourselves.
Another question, is the alcohol harm just direct harm, I suspect not, or does it include car accidents, tripping over when drunk etc?

[MisterD]

Another question, is the alcohol harm just direct harm, I suspect not, or does it include car accidents, tripping over when drunk etc?

It includes harm to the user and to society, so with alchol it will include wives beaten senseless by drunk husbands* as well as deaths of posh school kids who raid their parent liquor cabinets...

I think the Euro 2000 footbal tournament has been mentioned previously, but the difference in the behaviour of English fans in Belgium on the beer and Amsterdam on the toke was as stark an example as you could wish for.


*and vice versa.

[oneofsix]

It includes harm to the user and to society, so with alchol it will include wives beaten senseless by drunk husbands* as well as deaths of posh school kids who raid their parent liquor cabinets...

I think the Euro 2000 footbal tournament has been mentioned previously, but the difference in the behaviour of English fans in Belgium on the beer and Amsterdam on the toke was as stark an example as you could wish for.


*and vice versa.

That also goes some way to explaining the step in the graph. Once the substance 'below the step' become 'acceptable' (or legal if you prefer) then you will see an increase in their rate of harm. Except there should already be data from the Netherlands to compare alcohol with cannabis and they have a different drinking culture. Now that would be interesting.

[mashman]

You may not get the job you want, but you will be working and contributing to society rather than living off those who are working

The next time I'm unemployed, this will be my scenario (as it was 6 or so months ago)... I need to get the job I need, not want, so that I can afford to not lose the family home and the family life savings, and choosing to take just any job in the meantime will cut down on the time I have available to upskill and make myself more available in my chosen field... I will also be taking a job away from another member of society, even though I have every intention of leaving the temporary job for a better paid one, as soon as it become available.

Is taking a potentially long term job away from someone else, for my own short term gain, more beneficial to society than my waiting until I can get the job I need? Wouldn't that be considered selfish and extremely rude to the employer? Or would you consider me being lazy?

Therein lies one of the issues. As with so many "personal" choices, claims we are "not hurting anyone else" are in fact untrue. What we do and say, always affects someone else for either good or bad, and we have to decide how selfish we wish to be in pursuing our desires.

Untrue? Do you really believe that most/all/a few people change so radically, under the influence of marijuana, that their behaviour, judgement and general standards in regards to how they interact with others varies so widely from the person they are without marijuana in their system?

[Mad-V2]

Therein lies one of the issues. As with so many "personal" choices, claims we are "not hurting anyone else" are in fact untrue. What we do and say, always affects someone else for either good or bad, and we have to decide how selfish we wish to be in pursuing our desires.

Very few, it seems are willing to show restraint for the common good, rather insisting on "their rights" to do as they please and everyone else can suck eggs.

Whether one agrees or not, the law is the law as decided in a democtratic society and we are, as citizens of said society, bound by them. Rebell and you get punished.

Well I'll leave it to you to be ruled by the almighty LAW. As for me, I'm gonna continue to live a life of risk taking as I'm here only once, for a small amount of time and I'm making the most of it regardless of what you think.
Over the years I have drunk too much, gone too fast, jumped from planes/bridges, tried as many different AB and C classed drugs that came my way and generally lived a very full life with no regret, I like to experience all that this Earth has to offer.
BUT I have Never had a hand out from the government or society, I have a full time job that I've had now for 15 years, a happy family that are feed, clothed and kept warm, and I'm in very good health.
According to you I should be dead already or in jail, and all people around me should hate me for being so selfish and irresponsible
Funnily enough the only people who would hate me are the people ruled by Law or religion (I think it's a jealousy thing).

[Edbear]

Ed, this is the Lancet* Drug Harm Index...



*You know, the leading medical journal in the world...

It's a holistic view of course and takes into account the fact that many abuse the substances. My point is about physical effects, and alcohol per se is not generally harmful if consumed within limits. Smoking, whatever you smoke, is inherently harmful and Cannabis is never benign in any amount.

Personally, I restrict myself on anything that diminishes my mental clarity, as I do not enjoy the feeling of not being in full control of my faculties. Some medicines are necessary and I have to put up with some side effects, but there is never an argument that nothing else can do what Cannabis does forn pain relief, and even the users on here admith that that is not their reason for taking it. They enjoy the mind altering and emotional effects of it and are quite prepared to break the law to get their jollies.

It includes harm to the user and to society, so with alchol it will include wives beaten senseless by drunk husbands* as well as deaths of posh school kids who raid their parent liquor cabinets...

I think the Euro 2000 footbal tournament has been mentioned previously, but the difference in the behaviour of English fans in Belgium on the beer and Amsterdam on the toke was as stark an example as you could wish for.


*and vice versa.

See above.

The next time I'm unemployed, this will be my scenario (as it was 6 or so months ago)... I need to get the job I need, not want, so that I can afford to not lose the family home and the family life savings, and choosing to take just any job in the meantime will cut down on the time I have available to upskill and make myself more available in my chosen field... I will also be taking a job away from another member of society, even though I have every intention of leaving the temporary job for a better paid one, as soon as it become available.

Is taking a potentially long term job away from someone else, for my own short term gain, more beneficial to society than my waiting until I can get the job I need? Wouldn't that be considered selfish and extremely rude to the employer? Or would you consider me being lazy?

If you are honest with your employer from the beginning there wil be no issues come time to leave your employment as that would be the understanding between you. YEs, it may mean some would not take you on in due to the potential temporary nature of your plans, but as I said, if you are actively seeking work and being as flexible and responsible as your circumstances allow you cannot be called a dole bludger.

Untrue? Do you really believe that most/all/a few people change so radically, under the influence of marijuana, that their behaviour, judgement and general standards in regards to how they interact with others varies so widely from the person they are without marijuana in their system?

See my response to MrD.

[mashman]

Ridiculous... triple his sentence and waste more tax payers money... where he could be selling the stuff and paying tax... is reefer madness ever going to end...

[Edbear]

Well I'll leave it to you to be ruled by the almighty LAW. As for me, I'm gonna continue to live a life of risk taking as I'm here only once, for a small amount of time and I'm making the most of it regardless of what you think.
Over the years I have drunk too much, gone too fast, jumped from planes/bridges, tried as many different AB and C classed drugs that came my way and generally lived a very full life with no regret, I like to experience all that this Earth has to offer.
BUT I have Never had a hand out from the government or society, I have a full time job that I've had now for 15 years, a happy family that are feed, clothed and kept warm, and I'm in very good health.According to you I should be dead already or in jail, and all people around me should hate me for being so selfish and irresponsible
Funnily enough the only people who would hate me are the people ruled by Law or religion (I think it's a jealousy thing).

A key point! Obviously you do in fact limit yourself and if you truly take this kind of care for your family, you are not a selfish person, nor irresponsible.

Trying something out of curiosity is one thing - living on it despite knowing the risks and without regard to others is another thing altogether. It sounds like you are generally a hard working individual who accepts his repsonsibilities. I may not agree that one should try everything, and while accepting and fully understanding from personal experience how fragile our lives are, I also try to live responsibly and with regard for my family and fellow man.

I have made and will continue to make personal sacrifices for my wife and children and recognise my life would be very different if I was not married. However, I made a commitment to my wife for life, and she will always come before me, I mean her interests will always come ahead of mine.. Oh, you know what I mean...

[mashman]

Personally, I restrict myself on anything that diminishes my mental clarity, as I do not enjoy the feeling of not being in full control of my faculties. Some medicines are necessary and I have to put up with some side effects, but there is never an argument that nothing else can do what Cannabis does forn pain relief, and even the users on here admith that that is not their reason for taking it. They enjoy the mind altering and emotional effects of it and are quite prepared to break the law to get their jollies.

Some medicines are necessary... smacks of double standards plain and simple. I break the law to manage my sleep, my weight, my "irritability" and I enjoy the side effect of getting a minor high and suffer no other side effects. Why can't I medicate myself my way Ed? I'm not talking about living on it.

Sleeping pills haven't worked and I haven't used them since I found that they got me high instead of putting me to sleep. Don't believe me, try it for yourself.