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Thread: MB100 development

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    I don't remember Yow or anyone saying it had a jet in the vent?

    Here is the f3 carb mods I would not say all his mods are Nesercary but here is the Naughty boy page I couldn't get the page to work on the net but I was able to piece this together with a page I had saved.

    But as I said above my was never blocked off on my bike that had the same type of motor and the same carb. The power jet was never blocked off either.
    Right here is a copy of the TZR race kit Manual for the carb.

    It does say as I alluded too earlier to block it off, but has anyone confirmed that the fueling is wrong on the bike as it is now?

    If the fueling is ok now. I can't see how it will gain any HP. Unless the fueling is crap at the moment.

    I should probably point out this was for this model carb what ever it is and no doubt the Crafty Japanese made a few changes during the model Run.
    Maybe Hilly should give us a run-down of the carb jet specs as they are now.
    I see the KR250 the Rotary Reed valve original one had similar carbs 28mm downdraft SS mikunis.
    So if Hillys carb is off one of these. All bets with regards to jetting are off as the disk valve will probably have a four stroke style Emulsion tube at a guess.

    I have posted the rest of the Naughty boy file as I like shiny milled billet stuff mmmm.....shiny

    The ex Naughty boy racing site is renamed and is here not a bad site intersting stuff Mainly Yamaha Shame.

    http://www.speeddemonracing.com/articles.html
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  2. #62
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    ahh. so the main belmouth one is blocked? My RGV one wasn't for the reasons I explained. This seems like a sensible mod, or alternatively one could just put the drilling elsewhere, but easier & cleaner to drill then epoxy up the hose fitting.


    ON TZR carbs with rubber hose fitted to feed the powerjet (which doesn't seem to flow particularly well without the airbox as it isn't an extended tube) I have found pilot jets stuffed in the rubber tube. I doubt Yamaha fitted them there, but I've found them on about 3 carbs. Naughty production racers. Actually I have about 3 different TZR type carbs & some gad removable jets in the airjet area.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
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  3. #63
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    Hilleyes carb is off a TZR250, the one that I ride in buckets with a FXR motor in it.
    My neighbours diary says I have boundary issues

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    If the fueling is ok now. I can't see how it will gain any HP. Unless the fueling is crap at the moment.
    Yeah, very true.

    It doesn't look like everything adds up right from the way I read all the posts, like it isn't fueling properly all the way through the range. BUT also as stated earlier, I am no expert.

    Could it also be that the other aspects such as pilot jet and slide cutaway are wrong for the motor and haven't been addressed properly?

    (Not trying to be a cock, just raising points that may or may not have been overlooked.)
    Heinz Varieties

  5. #65
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    12th February 2004 - 10:29
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    My 34mm carb had the same fitting and it wouldn't jet up on the dyno. We tried it open and with various size jets fitted. It cleaned up immediately and responded to mainjet changes when we blocked it off.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by koba View Post
    Yeah, very true.

    It doesn't look like everything adds up right from the way I read all the posts, like it isn't fueling properly all the way through the range. BUT also as stated earlier, I am no expert.

    Could it also be that the other aspects such as pilot jet and slide cutaway are wrong for the motor and haven't been addressed properly?

    (Not trying to be a cock, just raising points that may or may not have been overlooked.)
    http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/at...112166&thumb=1

    I can be a cock without trying

    Just read first post must have missed that Whoops


    Hilly Positives from the session on the dyno were:
    1. The bike is no longer in grave danger of seizing because it was running way, way, too lean.
    2. I actually know where its making power and can now ride it accordingly.

    Negatives:
    1. Bike is making less power than expected and is quite peaky. Peak power is also being made quite low at around 9200rpm. Exhaust seems to be the culprit on this.
    2. Carb seems to be too large for the bike. Diagnosed from:
    No power increase with a jetting increase.
    Jetting also can't be increased as carb won't flow enough air. Raising the needle to flow more air (to allow bigger jet) just causes bogging issues.
    Unable to reduce the jetting size without compromising the fuel/air ratio and placing the engine at risk

    What I don't have is an objective point of view of what can reasonably be expected from this motor and where I should start to try and improve it. I've heard figures of upto 30hp being bandied around, but would be happy with a little more than what I'm getting over a much broader rev range.

    Bike is running a Mikuni carb that's been machined out to 27mm and what looks like a home made exhaust system with a can of unknown origin.
    But The issue as I see it is the bike isn't making HP as hilly says the carburation is obviously amiss. if the symptoms are right.

    But the TZR250 carb has been successfully used on other bikes including many a MB100 making more power without these problems.

    Is there other problems with the condition of the carb etc rather than design faults.
    Has the boring of the carb made something amiss is it sealing around the slide for instance is the slide reaching full lift a full throttle the list goes on
    Is the fuel line hard is the filter in the tap blocked restricted as on the stock MB5 tank with a mild motor the tap was effectively the defacto main jet even when drilled out is the float height correct is the needle and seat ok are any airways blocked etc.
    Note I always used a foam filter.

    No one has mentioned reeds either. What reeds does it have. Are the stops std. Out of control reeds do all sorts of weird things to power and fueling.

    The Ledar kits sold for these bikes (TZR) when the airbox was eliminated required a filter spacer it was one of the few bikes that needed one.interesting,

    Link here for Manuals for TZR250

    http://http://www.speeddemonracing.com/articles.html
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by husaberg View Post
    Right here is a copy of the TZR race kit Manual for the carb.

    It does say as I alluded too earlier to block it off, but has anyone confirmed that the fueling is wrong on the bike as it is now?

    If the fueling is ok now. I can't see how it will gain any HP. Unless the fueling is crap at the moment.

    I see the KR250 the Rotary Reed valve original one had similar carbs 28mm downdraft SS mikunis.
    Ok, cos I put it on the dyno the fueling is as good as it's going to get, but it's by no means perfect. It's still leaner than optimal.

    Basically Brendan at Dynoworx said "We have lost control of the main jet." What he meant (because he explained it to me) was that there was no longer enough air flow through the carb. When we tried to improve the air flow to further improve the A/F mix by raising the needle the bike started to bog. When we reduced the main jet size the A/F mix started to lean out and no increase in power. Now this may not necessarily be the fault of the carb, it could be any number of factors, but we'll elminate them one at a time.

    So far:

    The plastic bit on carb has been identified as needing to be blocked off along with some other bits. Will follow instructions on how to rectify.

    Port timing on the existing cylinder has been identified as potentially suspect. Will replace and get porting done properly.

    Exhaust might not be optimal and might be restricting power because needs to be produced quite high in the rev range. Will experiment with alternatives. Question: What is the likely impact of throwing a 125cc exhaust on (Aprilla RS125) ?

    Might need adjustable ignition to allow bike to rev into rpm band required to make good power. Will look into cost of replacement.

    Bike will be raced as is for BoB (honestly not sure more power would make too much difference at this time), but essentially I've now got areas requiring development.

    I actually owned an old KR250, fantastic bike. Powerband hit like a sledge hammer often lifting the front wheel. Reliability wasn't its strong suite though.
    Hilleye

    If it doesn't bring a tear to your eye, add a little more fully synth 2T to the mix.

  8. #68
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    yeah I'd try block the tube & see if it responds to mainjet changes with a couple of dyno runs. Get everything else sorted before worrying about an adjustable ignition, there are probably only 1/2 doz buckets in NZ with those & most of them very recent.

    Porting & pipe? Well best to see what you have got now, measure up. An Aprillia 125 is a roadbike & probably isn't a fantastic start point.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

  9. #69
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    20th January 2010 - 14:41
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    Gearbox ratios MB5

    MB5 MB100 H100s Primary drive all 17x70 =4.117
    1st 3.17 3.083 3.08
    2nd 2.06 1.882 1.78
    3rd 1.50 1.400 1.27
    4th 1.17 1.130 0.96
    5th 1.00 0.960
    6th 0.88


    Supplement to service manual that covers six speed gearbox I will post below.

    Plus an ancient H100 pipe design. Blame Bell and the fact that I did it 15 years ago if its a bit dated


    MB5 ignition
    Ignition timing "F" mark 19 +or- 3 degrees BTDC @ 3000 rpm
    Full retard 10 +or- 5 degrees BTDC @ 7000 rpm

    MB100 15 + or - 3 degrees BTDC @3000 rpm then advancing thereafter according to the blurb in the Hayes manual
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  10. #70
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    MB5 gearbox Pics of Layout that wouldn't fit above

    Plus those Mad Swedes are at it again MB5 crankcase reed.
    I not sure if he started before Dave or not.

    http://forum.scooterforum.net/forum/...roject-153286/
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    Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken

  11. #71
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    19th December 2008 - 20:22
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    Just finished practice today. Bike was running okay until the end. Then it stated making a clunking death rattle sound on shutdown. Started up and ran alright again though, so hopefully it'll last the day tomorrow. Wallace, who was there at the time said it sounded like it might be a loose crank. If this was the case any ideas how long before the time bomb explodes?

    This has demonstrated to me that I need a spare engine though. Anyone selling one?

    Thank you all for the help with the bike, your posts have been exceptionally helpful.
    Hilleye

    If it doesn't bring a tear to your eye, add a little more fully synth 2T to the mix.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilleye View Post
    This has demonstrated to me that I need a spare engine though. Anyone selling one?
    Try Diesel Pig, he's developing a new engine so may sell off his MB stuff
    "If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."


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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hilleye View Post
    If this was the case any ideas how long before the time bomb explodes?
    Don't risk guesses.
    Pull it apart, find the problem (and check for any others) and fix it. If you can't, get someone else to.
    It could be a cheap and easy fix now but a whole new motor job with 10 seconds more running time.
    Heinz Varieties

  14. #74
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    Once an MB has been put together properly with new bearings and the like it should last for ages with little or no trouble.
    Often rust on bearing surfaces from sitting around in sheds will cause catastrophic failure.
    Heinz Varieties

  15. #75
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    25th March 2004 - 17:22
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    Nah nah, it'll be alright.


    except it wasn't. Anyway nice meeting you.
    I've been told. Dreaming`s free.
    Think I'll go, back to sleep.
    Everybody listen, voices in my head
    Everybody listen, do yours say, what mine says?

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