I go to bed every night and dream of another recession

[Genie]

I go to bed every night and sleep.

[mashman]

That's quite funny. My late father-in-law was a committed Marxist too and he would argue to the end of the whiskey bottle that the only reason the USSR failed was due to the, forced upon them, arms race with the USA. He also boasted that the Russians were leagues ahead at building space crafts.

Marxism is great for those slightly more equal than the others OR party menbers.

However not good if you have any ambition or ability OR just want to be able to make choices.

My Texan Taxi driver was one of the dumbest arses I've ever met. My taxi driver in Moscow spoke 3 languages and had two master's degrees. He was still a taxi driver though

Damn I wish my mum where hear, she's the political historian... Marxism etc... did the man on the street need to have money in his pocket?

[mashman]

Kinda agree there mashy.....the main purpose today seems to be the endless redesigning of the wheel....take Microsoft for an example.Or half the shit tools out there now.We used to manage quite well with a standard & philips head screwdriver, but now you need to have 27 different kinds just in case.
Shit bearings in everything & fuck all things designed to last longer than the warranty period.
Progress? Not always. Cheaper?Is definiely not better.Not when you have to buy 8.6 vacuum cleaners over a life time. My Mum brought a new Electrolux back in '67.....its still going.
Funny how Capatalism (Consumerism)now relies on Communism ,& vice versa.

Heh, aye the warranty period. I often mused that there must be an eprom in there somewhere ticking that year down from the first plugin... you would think that things would be designed to be reusable, or easily recyclable... I understand that that's very simplistic and that it isn't that easy to do... but I doubt that that sort of design thinking has ever been considered as profitable and therefore dumped in the too hard basket.

[YellowDog]

Heh, aye the warranty period. I often mused that there must be an eprom in there somewhere ticking that year down from the first plugin... you would think that things would be designed to be reusable, or easily recyclable... I understand that that's very simplistic and that it isn't that easy to do... but I doubt that that sort of design thinking has ever been considered as profitable and therefore dumped in the too hard basket.

Most of us are with you on that sentiment. We buy cheap and badly pooly made products these days to support the 'throwaway society', so that pooly paid workers can stay in work and make more pooly made products to replace it once it's worn out. You can argue that such products hence cost a fraction of what it would otherwise be and therefore more consumers get to bemnef it from them.

I will be trying to teach my kids to value what they have, rather than automatically seek the new and improved replacements. Peer pressure and the media are not on my side.

[Brett]

Heh, aye the warranty period. I often mused that there must be an eprom in there somewhere ticking that year down from the first plugin... you would think that things would be designed to be reusable, or easily recyclable... I understand that that's very simplistic and that it isn't that easy to do... but I doubt that that sort of design thinking has ever been considered as profitable and therefore dumped in the too hard basket.

I absolutely agree with you here. It is something that has to change. We simply don't have the resources necessary to keep making things "new" especially if the resources from the "old" product are not being recycled.

Why is it that so many products (like appliances, cell phones, TV's etc) are still designed and treated as almost a type of consumable? I suppose manufacturers rely on peoples need/want to replace with new every so often, but if the business model changed and they focused also on providing an after sales service schedule, then there would still be ample business in it for them.

[avgas]

Yeah, Nah... I just need the current Zombies to realise that they aren't

But then they might actually get jobs

[Usarka]

Plenty of people with jobs that are mindless zombies.

[avgas]

Plenty of people with jobs that are mindless zombies.

Yeah I like to call them middle management. Sounds nicer.

[YellowDog]

I absolutely agree with you here. It is something that has to change. We simply don't have the resources necessary to keep making things "new" especially if the resources from the "old" product are not being recycled.

Why is it that so many products (like appliances, cell phones, TV's etc) are still designed and treated as almost a type of consumable? I suppose manufacturers rely on peoples need/want to replace with new every so often, but if the business model changed and they focused also on providing an after sales service schedule, then there would still be ample business in it for them.

I spent a lot of time in Europe and the USA and I can tell you that NZ is like breath of fresh air in that people do make their items last longer. I was amazed that I could take items to old fashioned shops with sewing machines and get them repaired. NZ to me is like the UK in early the 1970s (apart from the flares). So what it is you are complaining about has yet to actually kick off fully here. The Chinese influence is certainly advancing that culture though.

Yes, washing machines, dish washers, fridges, cars; in fact almost everything is viewed as consumable with a limited life expectancy. It's called consumerism. It's how large corporates become wealthy and powerful. They control their market with their cartels and feed information to us to make us always strive for the latest and greatest. For my next bike I want a Multistrada I'm on my second Flat Screen TV in 4 years. I went from 46" to 55" with internet and all the bollox. This is wrong, but it is the future.

To foreigners, NZ is very right wing. Even the labour party is more right wing than European right wing parties. Consumerism on a large scale will be here very soon. All we can do is live better lives within the culture. Helen Clark in the UN is the H U G E political movement that will eventually influence/instigate change (personally I can’t stand her). But that will only happen when we are in far deeper sh!t than present. I'm not looking forward to that day and would prefer it if the G7 countries started to regulate themselves to start trying to protect our futures by implementing some sustainability type policies.

When NZ is completely planted up with Rapeseed because fuel is more valuable than food, you’ll know they’ve gone too far

[Big Dave]

It used to be called planned obsolescence.

Others called it the Holden HD.

[mashman]

Most of us are with you on that sentiment. We buy cheap and badly pooly made products these days to support the 'throwaway society', so that pooly paid workers can stay in work and make more pooly made products to replace it once it's worn out. You can argue that such products hence cost a fraction of what it would otherwise be and therefore more consumers get to bemnef it from them.

I will be trying to teach my kids to value what they have, rather than automatically seek the new and improved replacements. Peer pressure and the media are not on my side.

That's the thing though... I read about it from the companies themselves, we wanna do this and wanna do that, but we need more investment. Fackin money . Unfortunately again, the benefit (for producer and consumer) is in the $ figure not the longevity/quality etc... and things don't become cheaper until they're superceeded, and all to make room the the next version, it cracks me up laughin.

Ditto on the kids thing... I may have a harder time with the wife though .

I absolutely agree with you here. It is something that has to change. We simply don't have the resources necessary to keep making things "new" especially if the resources from the "old" product are not being recycled.

Why is it that so many products (like appliances, cell phones, TV's etc) are still designed and treated as almost a type of consumable? I suppose manufacturers rely on peoples need/want to replace with new every so often, but if the business model changed and they focused also on providing an after sales service schedule, then there would still be ample business in it for them.

As mentioned above, there ain't enough $$$ to allow for that kind of R&D let alone the price tag that would be heaped on to the things... that's where I find it a crying shame... again the will is there, the money ain't. We all know we don't need the next best thing and would probably be happy with the $50 phone, shitty tablet (as long as it has angry birds on it, or in our case and angry bird on it ), 10 yr old washing machine, 10 yr old dishwasher etc... yet we'll buy the new ones for the warranty in an attempt to avoid a possible false economy. We all know these things, it's just too expensive, and like ya say, there would probably still be ample business.

But then they might actually get jobs

What jobs?