Post 90 Carb Bikes at VMCC.

[Rcktfsh]

Only my opinion but can't see the sense in trying to launch whats basically a new post classic class outside of the post classic assn, pre 89 still seems to be building up numbers nicely and attracting new/old riders ie Williams, Gee, Kattenberg etc. Why potentially dilute things with an orphan class running at one club?

[White trash]

Only my opinion but can't see the sense in trying to launch whats basically a new post classic class outside of the post classic assn, pre 89 still seems to be building up numbers nicely and attracting new/old riders ie Williams, Gee, Kattenberg etc. Why potentially dilute things with an orphan class running at one club?

That's a better point than what ol' Crazy Man came up with.

[crazy man]

That's a better point than what ol' Crazy Man came up with.

acording to the vic club they are losing money running the club and need more riders out there! and there must be alot of guy with theses newer bikes! so why not have them? lm just saying stick to the same rules as what ozzy run in case they come to to ride in nz or the other way around.

[crazy man]

l think put the junior bikes in with the f3 witch needs more bikes and the bigger carb bikes with the 89 boys. l just think past 1996 there are big improvements to bikes and leave them to a later date

[tigertim20]

Only my opinion but can't see the sense in trying to launch whats basically a new post classic class outside of the post classic assn, pre 89 still seems to be building up numbers nicely and attracting new/old riders ie Williams, Gee, Kattenberg etc. Why potentially dilute things with an orphan class running at one club?

That's a better point than what ol' Crazy Man came up with.

I can see it working. I love bikes, but i simply cant afford two. so if I want to race or do trackdays, Its on my road going bike.
racing and trackdays are a bit different, trackdays are just because, racing lets you pit yourself against others and have a bit of competition. If there was a class that allowed the older carb'd R1's to race, without getting shat on by all the newer 600cc/1000cc bikes, Id be fucking right on top of that shit. I dont see me winning, but shed be fun as fuck.

and jumping into a class to race againts way superior bikes is pointless and not fun.

I hope the class takes off, and I hope that other clubs adopt is as well, that would be a great move. I mean the LAST carbd R1 for example is what, 10 years old now? and the youngest pre 89 bike is what 22 years old? thats a big gap, and i reckon enough of one to be worth a new class. Youll probably get a bunch of people of gt650's, and stuff coming along for fun as well.

[tigertim20]

actually have a question..
had a skim read of the draft rules..

it talks about the components on the bikes having to be from the period of the bikes manufacture.
i assume that the components used by ohlins etc change and improve over time.

would that mean that you would have to run stock suspension unless you could PROVE that your modified suspension was made in the era of your bike? or have i read that wrong?

Im not in the region to be involved with such a class, but like i said, id support one if it was closer, so fwiw, I wouldnt mind people being forced to use stock suspension components, with a limit on how the stock bits can be modded.

[CHOPPA]

I can see it working. I love bikes, but i simply cant afford two. so if I want to race or do trackdays, Its on my road going bike.
racing and trackdays are a bit different, trackdays are just because, racing lets you pit yourself against others and have a bit of competition. If there was a class that allowed the older carb'd R1's to race, without getting shat on by all the newer 600cc/1000cc bikes, Id be fucking right on top of that shit. I dont see me winning, but shed be fun as fuck.

and jumping into a class to race againts way superior bikes is pointless and not fun.

I hope the class takes off, and I hope that other clubs adopt is as well, that would be a great move. I mean the LAST carbd R1 for example is what, 10 years old now? and the youngest pre 89 bike is what 22 years old? thats a big gap, and i reckon enough of one to be worth a new class. Youll probably get a bunch of people of gt650's, and stuff coming along for fun as well.

Mate I think its great this new class might get you out but you should just come race F1 on whatever you have or clubmen. It really doesnt matter if you win or lose. The bike is capable of whipping up some very new machinery! There are guys on brand new Ducatis that would get beaten by an old R1.

There is nothing more fun then beating riders on an old bike. When I race MX I use an old KX500 and I can still win the odd clubday on it against national riders, that is fun!

[tigertim20]

Mate I think its great this new class might get you out but you should just come race F1 on whatever you have or clubmen. It really doesnt matter if you win or lose. The bike is capable of whipping up some very new machinery! There are guys on brand new Ducatis that would get beaten by an old R1.

There is nothing more fun then beating riders on an old bike. When I race MX I use an old KX500 and I can still win the odd clubday on it against national riders, that is fun!

this is true, and a fair point.

but there are also other groups of people out there who would like to race, and simply lack the money, but have the skills, balls, time and commitment. If a new class gives people with a smaller pocket the opportunity to get out, race hard, and win, without spending a cunt load of money over a season, then isnt that a good thing?
Frankly carbs and massively limited mods would be awesome. fuck limit them to road tyres too while you're at it. I know some people think parity is boring, but when you limit it alot more, it often results in much closer racing, which, IMO, is better for the spectators, and more fun for the guys out there having a great battle everytime the flag drops

[crazy man]

this is true, and a fair point.

but there are also other groups of people out there who would like to race, and simply lack the money, but have the skills, balls, time and commitment. If a new class gives people with a smaller pocket the opportunity to get out, race hard, and win, without spending a cunt load of money over a season, then isnt that a good thing?
Frankly carbs and massively limited mods would be awesome. fuck limit them to road tyres too while you're at it. I know some people think parity is boring, but when you limit it alot more, it often results in much closer racing, which, IMO, is better for the spectators, and more fun for the guys out there having a great battle everytime the flag drops

road tires no way its taken me 10 year to get my first set of new slicks lol and should last me 10 year lol

[slowpoke]

I dunno, if someone wants to race I reckon they'll already be racing. I can't see many, if any, new racers coming out of the woodwork just 'cos there's a new class. If you were keen you'd already be out there in Clubman's or F1/2. If a 600 can do well in F1 (as they do) then there are no excuses for being shy with your 'blade, R1, ZX9 etc. Same goes for the older 600's, they should be a lot quicker than the pro-twins etc that also enter F2.

It's just more dilution I reckon, and not really helping the overall racing scene. Sure Oz may have something similar but the racing scene is a helluva lot different over there, with an assembly line of great racers while we are struggling in comparison.

If the Winter Series is trying to attract more racers I'd be looking more at things like the 4 lap qualifying before introducing another class. Even if I still had my old R1 I wouldn't turn up to race with just 4 laps to get up to speed.

[White trash]

Here's the thing. If someone took a 98 R1, and entered every round of the VMCC winter series, consistantly running 72 second laps in the dry, they'd be winning the F1 class right now. So they really don' need their own class.

[tigertim20]

I dunno, if someone wants to race I reckon they'll already be racing. I can't see many, if any, new racers coming out of the woodwork just 'cos there's a new class. If you were keen you'd already be out there in Clubman's or F1/2. If a 600 can do well in F1 (as they do) then there are no excuses for being shy with your 'blade, R1, ZX9 etc. Same goes for the older 600's, they should be a lot quicker than the pro-twins etc that also enter F2.

It's just more dilution I reckon, and not really helping the overall racing scene. Sure Oz may have something similar but the racing scene is a helluva lot different over there, with an assembly line of great racers while we are struggling in comparison.

If the Winter Series is trying to attract more racers I'd be looking more at things like the 4 lap qualifying before introducing another class. Even if I still had my old R1 I wouldn't turn up to race with just 4 laps to get up to speed.

and what about the bikes in pro twins that are carbed but getting beat badly, and would like a new class where they can be more competitive without having to fork out money hand over fist?

[Kickaha]

and what about the bikes in pro twins that are carbed but getting beat badly, and would like a new class where they can be more competitive without having to fork out money hand over fist?

Maybe they should learn to ride a bit harder, more often than not it's the rider more than the bikes

How many new classes would you like?

Everyone want a class where they and there bike can be competitive and it just isn't going to happen, you'd end up with to many classes to run unless you wanted to have week long meetings

[Skunk]

acording to the vic club they are losing money running the club and need more riders out there! and there must be alot of guy with theses newer bikes! so why not have them? lm just saying stick to the same rules as what ozzy run in case they come to to ride in nz or the other way around.

Who said VMCC is losing money? Times are tight and fields are small - true. Losing money? AGM is next month so wait and see...

actually have a question..
had a skim read of the draft rules..

it talks about the components on the bikes having to be from the period of the bikes manufacture.
i assume that the components used by ohlins etc change and improve over time.

would that mean that you would have to run stock suspension unless you could PROVE that your modified suspension was made in the era of your bike? or have i read that wrong?

You have misread it. Visually indistinguishable is the phrase you missed I think. Those rules are a copy of Aussie pre 95 rules but amended for here. This is a Vic Club thing like our Mini Lite 250s.
I don't envisage large entries but if it gives a few cash strapped former F1, F2 and F3 bikes a place to be - job done. Big fields - Good racing.
All I saw was a big gap between Pre89 and the age of most F1 and F2 bikes. This is an attempt by VMCC to fill it with as much choice as possible. Currently we have '90 RGV 250's in F3. Hardly what I'd call even with R6 450's.

Anyway here are the DRAFT rules.
Don't post your suggestions here if you want Vic Club to have them! They MUST be emailed to Vic Club.

VMCC RULES FOR POST 90 CARBIES CLASS
SEASON COMMENCING 2012
ALL COMPETITORS PLEASE NOTE: If you are attempting to enter a machine or component that is not obviously known to be eligible then you must have documented evidence that the machine or component was available in the period or is a visually indistinguishable replica of a machine or component available in the period.
YOU MUST HAVE YOUR OWN DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE IF REQUESTED. DO NOT rely solely on another person’s opinion.
PROOF OF ELIGIBILITY The onus of proof of eligibility shall rest wholly upon the rider or entrant of the machine. The eligibility and dating of machines for these classes shall be considered in terms of major and minor components and the period of the motorcycle shall be the period of the latest major component. For the purpose of these rules the “Post 90 Carbies” is defined as a model that ONLY came from the manufacturer with carburettors. No major or minor parts from later models that had Fuel Injection may be used.

1. THE DATING OF REPLICATED MAJOR COMPONENTS IS DEFINED AS THE YEAR OF MANUFACTURE OF THE ORIGINAL COMPONENT BEING REPLICATED.
Major components are:
A) All engine and gearbox external castings.
B) Frames
C) Swing arms
D) Brakes
E) Forks and fork yokes
F) Carburettors

2. All machines must be a Production Road Bike. It must have a compliance plate. Machines without compliance plates will be judged by frame number and model year. No specialised race only machinery will be eligible.

3. Fairings, streamlining and cosmetic components must be based on patterns known and used in the period. Components manufactured outside the period are eligible if they are visually indistinguishable from components available within the period being depicted.

4. Modifications to major components are allowed, providing such modifications are visually indistinguishable from modifications proven to have been used in the period.

5. Chapter 10 of the GCR applies.

6. Tyre choice and wheel size is open but wheels must be from or visually indistinguishable from models available in the period.

7. CLASSES WITHIN POST 90 CARBIES:
Formula 1
• 601cc – Unlimited 4 Stroke Machines
• 401cc – Unlimited 2 Stroke Machines
Formula 2
• 251cc – 400cc 2 Stroke Machines
• 401cc – 600cc 4 Stroke Machines
Formula 3
• 0 - 250cc 2 Stroke Machines
• 0 - 400cc 4 Stroke Machines

8. A F3 or F2 road based machine fitted with any MAJOR component from a higher Formula machine will be moved up into the Formula group that the donor machine would normally occupy.

[crazy man]

Who said VMCC is losing money? Times are tight and fields are small - true. Losing money? AGM is next month so wait and see...

all iv been told is number are down alot from last year and your not hosting the nationals cause your losing money great if your not!! time are not to great and l think its a good idea like your doing to get more people out there with this class. l just looked up times from 98-99 nationals at manfeild and 108's were the times they were doing think that same bike could do 7s today with better tires.. were 95 bikes were doing more like 11 from nz riders. maybe put the pre 96 bike with the 89 boys and the 97-99 carb bikes with the super bikes? just a idea and l do know unless you stick a good rider on the bike there not going to get near the times l said just saying the differents..cheers