Avon - The love affair is over!

[ducatisl]

!!...sigh!! Mr Avon can be whomever you want that has any responsibility at the 'Cooper Tire & Rubber Company' that make Avon Tyres, be it the CEO, Board, Shareholders or any of the decision making management.

I think it's the tyre because I have had three in a row fail, then find other ST riders are experiencing the same problem, whereby it appears the belts are collapsing and/or rupturing. It would seem the tyres are fine with ST1100's and other lighter bikes but they can't hack the loadings placed on them by ST1300's. The other side of this problem, is that Mr Avon doesn't appear to acknowledge or recognise there is a problem....and we can't still get the Storms, that were fine.

I am very sure there have been no sharp, blunt or other objects involved with the failure of my Storm 2 Ultras. It's the tyre that I need to stay away from.

And have you taken up your concerns with the dealer that you purchased the tyres from or the NZ distributor of Avon tyres ?

[Hitcher]

And have you taken up your concerns with the dealer that you purchased the tyres from or the NZ distributor of Avon tyres ?

Have you read this thread from the beginning?

[vifferman]

I'd been a long time proponent of Avons up until recentlyish, when I got pissed off with two front Avons in a row wearing a noticeable step - the last one when it was still relatively new. So, I replaced it with a Michelin Pilot Power, to go with the new Michelin Pilot Road 2. Dunno why I didn't do it sooner - they're SO much more betterer for handling, ride, grip and wear characteristics, with not a lot of difference in price.


All those riding years I wasted....

[p.dath]

I'm not a tyre expert, but I have been studying tyres recently, and I keep thinking about this thread.

My guess is that because multiple bikes are being affected it quite likely is an issue to do with the tyres; but playing the devils advocate ...

I think about the fact that you have used these tyres for quite some time and they were great. And then you had three bad sets in a row. So I wonder - has something changed about the tyres - or has something changed about your bike? And you know which seems more likely ...

More specifically, are the tyres now experiencing some kind of force that they weren't previously, and that the manufacturer did not design the tyre to withstand - and that this new force is because of some change in your bike?

For example, a lot of brand new bikes come out with chassis that are not "straight". Bends of up to 5 degrees are not uncommon in new bikes. Is it possible your bike (like most) has a bend that has gradually gotten worse and is causing the tyre to drive with a yaw angle other than zero? Has the bike had a hard impact against a stone or curb maybe?

Is there any chance the back wheel is not completely lined up with the front wheel, causing the tyres to experience a lateral force? Did you have a new sprocket or chain fitted around the time that things started going wrong?

Is the steering head bearing ok? Any chance it is work and causing the front tyre to rotate around (albeit only slightly) and experience a constant turning torque that it might not otherwise do?

Ditto for the rear wheel bearing?

A bit personal; has the weight that the tyres are having to carry changed quite a bit? Or are you now carrying saddle bags or something else that you weren't before that affects the weight on the tyres?

Has the suspension been adjusted on the bike? This could alter the forces on the tyres quite a bit.

[Jantar]

.......I think about the fact that you have used these tyres for quite some time and they were great. And then you had three bad sets in a row. So I wonder - has something changed about the tyres - or has something changed about your bike? And you know which seems more likely ...

......

The OP stated that it is the tyres that have changed. He was happy with the Avon Storms, but not the Avon Storm Ultras. The origional Storms are no longer available.

[riffer]

Here's my call on what's happening John. We all know you have this predilection for long distance rides, and it's well known that the ST1300 puts one hell of a load on its tyres. I think the long distances you're putting on these tyres are causing some pretty intense heat loads, combined with stress on the belts that this model of tyre can't handle.

Perhaps a few less 800km in a day rides might help with tyre life. You did neglect to mention that a 5,000 km tyre life works out to less than a month for you. Or, you could go to the Michelins, or maybe some Contis and see if that helps.

[KoroJ]

.......... So I wonder - has something changed about the tyres - or has something changed about your bike? And you know which seems more likely ....

Avon originally made the Storms, then they 'upgraded' the tyre to the Storm Ultras....and that's when the problems started!

The ST is a heavy bike, weighing in at 300Kg dry, so add to that 29Litres of fuel, up to 30Kg of luggage, and me (at 90-95Kg) and you have a decent sized missile that can be brutal to tyres. Hence I am very pedantic about pressures, checking them at least once a week and definitely before every big ride. Also I try not to use dual compond tyres, (although the 023's currently on it are duals, so I don't expect great life from them)

I don't consider myself to be a 'hard' rider, but I do try to maintain an optimal pace on any given road, riding to the conditions and using minimal braking. I do like to use all the tyre I can and the ST is a bike that likes to lean, so I'm not easy on tyres either.

The bike is serviced meticulously and I would be very surprised if there were any issues there, and it was a relief to find I wasn't the only one experiencing the problems, but it was also intriguing to hear that ST1100's don't appear to be affected when they are only about 20Kg lighter.

Everything seems to point to the problem lying in the Avon Storm Ultra tyre and the fact that that Avon don't seem to recognise there is a problem is poor form on their part.

[KoroJ]

Here's my call on what's happening John. We all know you have this predilection for long distance rides, and it's well known that the ST1300 puts one hell of a load on its tyres. I think the long distances you're putting on these tyres are causing some pretty intense heat loads, combined with stress on the belts that this model of tyre can't handle.

Perhaps a few less 800km in a day rides might help with tyre life. You did neglect to mention that a 5,000 km tyre life works out to less than a month for you. Or, you could go to the Michelins, or maybe some Contis and see if that helps.

Maybe, but there's not much on in the way of decent rides between February and October, so the last tyre only one decent ride and that was it's last.

Tried a Road Attack on the rear once! Didn't find Pilot Road II's great but would use the single compound Pilot Road's again if I had to.

I only ride the bike how it was designed to be ridden! It wouldn't be any fun if I filled, went for a ride and filled the next week now would it. I look forward to a 2 tank (900Km) ride this Friday and the 3-4 tank (1600Km) ride on Saturday for the GC and trust the tyres I have on will cope well.


PS. The heat factor will affect the rubber and duration, but shouldn't cause the belts to collapse.

[cs363]

but it was also intriguing to hear that ST1100's don't appear to be affected when they are only about 20Kg lighter.

This is the bit that stood out to me and that nobody appears to have answered.
Why do these tyres work OK on ST1100's but apparently not on ST1300's? As I stated previously, weight, power & torque aren't largely different between the two bikes so why is it 'well known' (to quote Riffer) that ST1300's are hard on their tyres? I find this a very intriguing side issue.... is it true and if so why? Or is it just internet myth?

[KoroJ]

This is the bit that stood out to me and that nobody appears to have answered.
Why do these tyres work OK on ST1100's but apparently not on ST1300's? As I stated previously, weight, power & torque aren't largely different between the two bikes so why is it 'well known' (to quote Riffer) that ST1300's are hard on their tyres? I find this a very intriguing side issue.... is it true and if so why? Or is it just internet myth?

???...exactly and the only thing I can think of is the 1300 is just over the limit in terms of what the construction of the tyre can cope with. Add to that, the fact that we all ride differently and I have met a lot of ST riders that love and/or have no problems with tyres I haven't liked, not all riders are using, or experiencing the problems with the Ultras.

[Gremlin]

I think Riffer does certainly make some valid comments re distance.

On the KTM, when they pulled apart my suspension after 40k, the verdict was brutal... it was pretty fucked. One fork wouldn't slide properly, and the rear shock oil was a vile sludge instead. The only thing we could think of was that I was riding 300-400km on the trot reasonably often, loaded up, stopping for 15-30min, then repeating. It seemed the suspension was overheating, and then didn't have enough time to recover

Anyway, food for thought nonetheless.

[Jantar]

I just noticed this at the bottom of the thread.

There are currently 3 users browsing this thread. (3 members and 0 guests)

Jantar, Gremlin, KoroJ,

Three known long distance riders.

[KoroJ]

I think Riffer does certainly make some valid comments re distance.

On the KTM, when they pulled apart my suspension after 40k, the verdict was brutal... it was pretty fucked. One fork wouldn't slide properly, and the rear shock oil was a vile sludge instead. The only thing we could think of was that I was riding 300-400km on the trot reasonably often, loaded up, stopping for 15-30min, then repeating. It seemed the suspension was overheating, and then didn't have enough time to recover

Anyway, food for thought nonetheless.

Mmmm!!....Yes, KTM's are designed to ......(how big did you say that extra tank was that got strapped to the back?).....carry and go like you did? The ST is stock standard except for a few grams of wire and power socket (which is an approved option anyway) and one would imagine that with a name like Pan European, they are designed to run at 140-160kph, all day, for days on end?! One would also expect a tyre rated for the bike to do the same.

I never went near those dizzy limits (on the Ultras), but other tyres had managed to do 2100Km on the trot and 8,000Km in a week....on more than one occasion!

[p.dath]

KoroJ, it would be interesting reading to know would be what the tyre temperature gets up to on these long rides of yours, compared to a shorter more typical rides. I know you are careful about tyre pressure, but this would tell us if it was the right tyre pressure for the kind of riding you do. Perhaps you need to "overinflate" the tyre for these long rides to keep the temperature down.

I have no idea what you would use to measure the tyre temperature though ... but you could measure the "hot" tyre pressure and compare it to the cold pressure to get an indication of heating. I would think you would want to keep the change to about 10% for road use. If the change is greater than that then you may need to run a higher cold pressure.

[Blackbird]

KoroJ has documented his experience very well with good photos and accompanying descriptions to set the scene but from my perspective, some contributors have been heading off on the wrong tack, trying to suggest root cause. I humbly submit that there's a step that on the face of it, appears to have been missed. KoroJ is quite rightly miffed with the failure. I am however, puzzled as to why he slags off "Mr Avon" when all he appears to have done at this stage is complain to the company which fitted his tyres. Did that company decline to follow up with the importer or Avon directly? In that case, shouldn't the beef be with the fitters of the tyre in either failing to follow up or making a failure judgement off their own bat?

The reason I'm asking this is that when the original Avon Storms came out, there was a small problem with a small percentage of the front tyres. I skipped round the actual tyre outlet and directly contacted both Dold Industries, the importers in Hamilton and Pete McNally, the Avon Technical Manager in the UK. The response from both parties was both rapid and positive, which is clearly at odds with Koro's experience with the tyre outlet. Would there have been a different result by moving the issue higher and getting a root cause investigation by people who are qualified to do so? Not trying to be awkward or smart-arse, just curious as to whether all avenues had been explored (ahem.... partly because I was an anal mechanical engineer in a previous life ).